How much lube does your long range bullets haul?

[Dick Dastardly]

Just for grins and giggles, I cast me up a batch of DD 45-70 500grain boolits for the coming season.  They weighed in at 491.5 grains.  Could be the metal alloy.  All were ± .5 grains.  Thing is, when I lube/sized them they showed me 3.5grains of lube.  That is a lot of lube goin' down the tube.

So, you long range shooters, how much lube do your bullets carry?  Have you weighed 'em empty and full?

Lots of lube is the hallmark of Big Lube®LLC bullets.  They shoot all day and never foul out.  How do your bullets compare?

Just askin. . .

DD-MDA

[Ranch 13]

My paper patch doesn't use any lube...
The greasers take about 2 grs.
Not fouling out doesn't mean boospiddle if the bullet won't stay stable past 300 yards.

[PJ Hardtack]

The Lee 3r 500 has large grease grooves, but I hear it loses stability past 500 yds, as do a lot of bullet designs.

[Coffinmaker]

Heck.  I can't even SEE 500 yards. 

Coffinmaker

[john boy]

If a bullet is properly sized to prevent leading for it being too small resulting in gas stripping ... the bore only needs a thin coating with lube.  The bullet does not need excess lube that forms a star on the muzzle.
So are large lube grooves needed?  I shoot Dan Theodore' Mini Groove bullets. I have no bore leading or lube starvation or a lube star on the muzzle. And Dick, good luck with the 500gr bullets.  You know they wouldn't even print on the paper at 600yds for me that was posted on the forum with targets. Reason the mold was sold

[Dick Dastardly]

After shooting several seasons with the big DD-45-70 500 Semi Spitzer Big Lube®LLC design bullet and shooting with my pardners that bought the same mold from me, I can say it is very stable out to 1000 yards and perhaps beyond.  One reason is that the bullets, properly sized and fully lubed, continue to hold their accuracy.  We don't clean during a match, use a blow tube or any other accouterments common to lesser lubed bullets.  Please note that I said "We don'ty clean during a match".  That includes pushing a patch down the bore between shots.  We simply load and shoot.

I was asking how much lube your bullets did haul.  I wasn't asking how you made them fly.  This was a simple question.  Thank you Ranch for your concise answer.

DD-MDA

[Ranch 13]

  Dick what "matches" are you shooting with that bullet? I've not seen your name on any of the results from anywhere that shoots to 1000 yards.

[Dick Dastardly]

I don't have their current schedule yet, but I'll be shooting at Winnequah this coming season.  Racine County Line is another one.  Past data was lost in a hard drive crash but I'll be happy to report current data once this coming season starts.

Meanwhile, I did shoot the Squinty Eye match last season and may be able to find that data.

DD-MDA

[Ranch 13]

I have the results from Winnequaha both spring and fall matches, haven't seen your name on it.

[Blair]

I tried to reply here, but it got lost or bounced, I don't know which.
I wont try it again.
My best,
Blair

[Roosterman]

I was asking how much lube your bullets did haul.  I wasn't asking how you made them fly.  This was a simple question.  Thank you Ranch for your concise answer.

DD-MDA

Doesn't matter how much goo your bullet carries if it won't fly. I don't see any of the top shooters using your bullets. You're a snake oil salesman DD, always have been, always will be.

[Dick Dastardly]

Hmmm, sounds like you doubters will have to wait for current data.  I looked at the Winnequah web site and was similarly frustrated.

I've had a stroke that left me with an optical defect.  My problem, not yours.  I will however be shooting, as best I can, long range BPCR matches.  It's a joy to learn three seconds after I launch a bullet how well I did, or didn't.

Perhaps my bullet does fly well?  Maybe that's a problem for you Ranch and JC.  Let's wait and see.

Meanwhile, the molds have sold well and I hear good things about the scores.  Does that hurt you, or what?

DD-MDA

[Roosterman]

Sorry to hear your health has went down hill. Getting old sucks, don't ask me how I know.....

[Ranch 13]

Dick I've brought two medals home from the bptr nationals, have won the sharpshooter class at the Rocky Mountain regional twice. I know a bit about shooting long range and what bullets will or won't get it done. When I tried your bullet it would not hit a target at 400 yards, or at least if it did it was going sideways.  Same story comes from every one that has shot that bullet, but you.
I also know that even if your bullet would stay stable, there's no way on this earth you're going to get by with out any type of fouling control. Especially if the temps go above 80 and  the humidity starts going below 50%. Not keeping up with the fouling control will be cause for a lot of poor scores.
You said that you had good success with that bullet to 1000 yds, when asked where , you said the Lodi matches, a check of the scores from there going back 3 years, fails to show your name on the list..

[john boy]

One of the 600yd targets I tested with the 500gr MK III over a 3 day period.  Red circles are pasters


Dick's styrofoam box target @ 500yds that floated away in the lake ...

[Dick Dastardly]

Well, it seems you men have crushed me.  I'm now prone for your heal.  But, my bullet design lives on.

DD-MDA

[Roosterman]

If you have an exceptional product it will sell it's self. If you don't....well I think you have that part covered.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I won't try to swim in the waters of the 500 to 1,000 yard club.  I don't have the place to shoot that and, thus, no experience in what it takes to be successful there.

However, I do shoot a lot of 38-55 and 45-70 out to 200 yards (Cody Dixon and Cowboy Silhouette) plus 44WCF, 38WCF, 32WCF, and 45 Colt at local clubs  with BP and large lube capacity bullets.  While DD isn't the only source of bullets with large lube capacity, I've used a lot of his molds.  I can say that if I don't have enough lube to wet the entire bore, I get a LOT of BP fouling in the end of the barrel.  A 32 WCF I recently required is a recent case in point.  Bullets are properly sized to prevent lead stripping - I don't get lead, just BP fouling.

Using a large lube design has eliminated that problem and fouling does reach an equilibrium (in my personal experience with my guns - all my guns).  I've checked the bore periodically when shooting a 2-day match totaling 72 to 120+ rounds, and have verified this many times over a period of several years.  I shoot the rifle caliber matches using Marlins in 38-55 and 45-70, as well as a C Sharps in 45-70.

I can take the C Sharps to the bench and shoot DD's 400 grain 45-70 and put 3 rounds into a ragged hole at 100 yards.  Is it going to still be stable at 500 or 600 yards?  Heck if I know - but the design works great for my purposes out to 200 yards and runs indefinitely without cleaning the bore.

And I had a friend take a large Buffalo bull last spring with that bullet and load.

I can't ask anything more.

[Ranch 13]

Blackpowder Burn, Long Range matches are generally unlimited sighters and 10 shots for score. For general reference the "aiming black" is 44 inches in diameter for the 800,900, and 1000 yd targets. This includes the x ring, 10 inches, the 10 ring goes out to 20 inches, the 9 ring 30 inches and the last ring is the 8. Normally in a relay the shooter will have about 30 minutes to get those rounds off. A person doesn't have to rush, but you can't loligag around either. That heats the barrel up, and while you might have no trouble shooting a 3 shot group and maintaining accuracy without any fouling control, by the time you've got the 10th round down the tube, the barrel is getting pretty hot and the fouling hardens up quick. You can tell if fouling is getting to be a problem by the amount of vertical dispersion on the target. IE a 12 o'clock ten followed by a 6 o'clock 6..
In the midrange matches 200,300, and 600 yds. the protocol is generally 4 sighters and 10 shots for score in about a 25 minute time limit.
Those biglube bullets have never been shown to be able to make the type of accuracy needed, for either of the target disciplines, nor even for the requirements of a bpcr silhouette match. And to be sure there have been plenty of people tried them out.

[Ranch 13]

Just for fun here's a picture from the 300 yd. line at the Whittington.