BP 44-40 to 45 Colt Question

[medic15al]

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and good eats!

Did I read here about using 44-40 cases thru a 45 Colt die to improve the gas seal when being loaded with black powder?
Helping reducing fouling in levers in particular?

[Noz]

I know a few that do that. Actually fire form the 44-40 cases in their 45 rifles. Then load as if the cases were 45s.  Seem to work well enough that I still find BIG 44-40 cases every now and then.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

It works but fire forming .44-40 cases to .45 colt is a long and drawn out process.
that is tha bad part the good part is I shot my 1860 henry in a match and 60 rounds later the lifter was clean as a whistle.
Just a few articles of powder fouling but there was no stickiness of the lifter. There was no problems with feeding or ejecting at all.
Go for it. Starline cases is what i used and they come as a straight sided case with out the bottleneck of the .44-40.
Gently expand the case mouth to fit a .452 bullet and fire form.
Bunk

[Cuts Crooked]

Much will depend on your specific gun and who's brass you are using. Not all .45s will allow the 44-40 to chamber due to differences in rim diameter. The 44-40 has a listed rim diameter of .525, the .45 Colt is .512, Not much, but sometimes enuff to cause the 44-40 not to chamber properly in .45 guns.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Hi Cuts!
They work in my Uberti 1860 and 1866 but will not fit the shell carrier in my Dillon 550B.
Those are the only two rifles i have used them in but they fit my .45 SA just fine.
That rifle load is not fun to shoot in the revolver but most likely is period correct.
Bunk

[Cliff Fendley]

I read on the boards of people doing it with success but never actually talked to anyone personally that does it.

They use a different shell holder so I guess you have to use a 44-40 shell holder. Unless you went through the tedious process of turning the rims down also.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho the Fire,

If 45 Colt brass can be kept separate per gun, there's no need to full length resize it.  I shoot a 45 Colt 73 rifle clone and find that this works well with it.  The chamber formed brass occludes to fill the chamber quite well and keeps cleaning questions down to a spritz of Moosemilk and a tug of the Boresnake.  Once a year I clean the gun's innards just amuse myself.

Most 45 Colt sizing dies are made for worse case small chamber dimensions.  Most 45 Colt chambers are bigger than that.  The difference in size chambers means factory ammo and case sizing dies have to be made to work in all 45 Colt chambers.  This is the reason I have so little blow back dirt from my 44 ELR (Extra Long Russian) 44 Magnum to those in Rio Linda.  Factory specs for 44 Mag cases are a lot more uniform, it being a much more modern chambering and needing to be able to run at a LOT higher pressures.  My Browning 92 44 ELR stays quite clean and bore cleaning is usually all that's needed.

Happy New Year!

DD-MDA

[Cliff Fendley]

So DD, do you resize the neck area or not resize it at all? I suppose a person would have to play with it in each particular gun.

[Dick Dastardly]

If I resize my 45 Colt brass at all from that particular gun, I just neck size it enough to give me some bullet hold.  I still use a good crimp and I can do this because the bullet is supported by filler (black powder). .

DD-MDA

[Blair]

I have 8 guns that use .45 Colt, 5 are revolver and 3 are lever Rifles.
I full length size every cartridge case and seat the bullet to a depth that will feed through each of these firearms.
250 gr. bullet sized to .452, with 31 to 32 grs of BP only. (No wad no filler, one cartridge fits all arms)
During a match I spray down each primary firearm with water, Murphy's oil soap and rubbing alcohol between stages.
Never had a problem with revolver or Rifle, and clean up was fast and easy.
This was my "KISS" (keep it simple stupid) approach to shooting BP.
My best,
Blair

[Coffinmaker]

Great discussion about .......... not answering the OP's question.

Yes, you read that.  It has been discussed at length and it works.  Best bet, is to start with new Starline brass.  The reason the 44-40 cases work well in the .45 rifle is the thin brass up at the case mouth area.  Just like in the 44-40, it obturates to seal the chamber.  Ergo, a
45 rifle will run much much cleaner.  Not necessarily perfect, but much much better.

Stock 45 Colt cases don't obturate much, if at all.  Mega blow-by.  Case annealing can help, but not eliminate.  Big huge bullets, heavily crimped with a full powder charge will help, but not eliminate.  44-40 cases work much better than the fore-going.

Coffinmaker 

[medic15al]

Thanks for the info! I'm shooting my BP loads of 250 PRS and 40 grns FFFG Olde Eynsford in two SAA clones, and will be picking up a '73 carbine directly. I am concerned about trying to clean the '73s action as I'm not mechanically inclined and nerve damage in my hands. The same load will be used in both pistols and the carbine.

[Cliff Fendley]

73 action is easy enough to clean but anything you can do to make it run cleaner is certainly a plus.

[Coffinmaker]

Medic,
If you already have nerve damage in your hands, Might I suggest perhaps 200Gr or lighter bullets and maybe 30Gr 2f with some
cream-o-wheat in your SAs??  Would be much easier on your hands.  Or even a switch to C45S cases.

Coffinmaker

[medic15al]

Coffin,  The nerve damage isn't painful in the least, it is some light numbness in my thumb tip and middle finger tips due to ICU tying me down a wee too tight. Does make small screwdrivers and small parts tricky to handle.

Oh.. I am interested in 45 Cowboy or 45 Schofeld cases. Could either be loaded in 45 Colt dies (like 357 and 38 same dies) or do I need specific dies?

[Coffinmaker]

How fortunate you ask about the C45S.  The C45S has just come back on the market.  A bit pricy, but available.  There are some trix in the loading process.  45 Colt shell plate, 45 Colt resize die.  Then we become divergent.  After loading em for years, I suggest a 45 ACP seater die with a Redding 45 Auto Rim roll crimp die.
Some will report they successfully use a 45 ACP taper crimp die for pistol cases.  That works, but is not optimum.  Highly recommend the 45 AR Crimp Die.
45 Schofield can be loaded using 45 Colt cowboy dies. (RCBS).  I don't personally feel there is sufficient difference in the Schofield case vis the Colt case to make that switch.  Of course, I are a recoil wimp and really like to load light.

Coffinmaker

[Noz]

How fortunate you ask about the C45S.  The C45S has just come back on the market.  A bit pricy, but available.  There are some trix in the loading process.  45 Colt shell plate, 45 Colt resize die.  Then we become divergent.  After loading em for years, I suggest a 45 ACP seater die with a Redding 45 Auto Rim roll crimp die.
Some will report they successfully use a 45 ACP taper crimp die for pistol cases.  That works, but is not optimum.  Highly recommend the 45 AR Crimp Die.
45 Schofield can be loaded using 45 Colt cowboy dies. (RCBS).  I don't personally feel there is sufficient difference in the Schofield case vis the Colt case to make that switch.  Of course, I are a recoil wimp and really like to load light.

Coffinmaker

I loaded some C45S using the 45 ACP dies and it was not successful. Huge amounts of blowback. I now have 45 Colt dies but have not had a chance to use them.

[medic15al]

Thanks guys! I'm gonna give the schofeld load a try (28 grns FFFG and 230 grn round nosed bullet) in a schofeld case, and also try it with some filler in the Colt case. Need to get some 45 Cowboy Special cases and try. Nit the same as 45 Auto Rim is it?

[Cliff Fendley]

45 Schofield with 28 grains of 2f and 200 big lube is my CAS load now for my pistols after I had all the nerve issues in my neck. Wanted a PC cartridge and didn't want to use filler in the 44wcf or 45 colt.