.40 cal flint lock loads?

[will52100]

Wasn't sure where to ask this, but got a new flintlock from TVM, a very nicely done lefty with premium maple and a Rice swamped round bottom rifled barrel.  I haven't had time to take it out and try sighting in yet.  Looking for suggestions on loads, I'm thinking 40 grains as a start and maybe somewhere around 60 grains as a max for accuracy/power.  It's a patched round ball rifle of course.  I did get time to get out and cast some .390 balls, so I'm set there.

Thanks

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings my Good Will -
You are on the right track. You will definitely need Real BP, preferably 3F.
You might try as little as 30-35 gr and see how it prints, and if you read your patches you'll
know when you are topping out. Try different thicknesses of patching and keep notes as finding the
patch and lube your rifle prefers are likely to be your biggest challenges.

BTW Grafs has a special on hazmat fees this month...
any pics?

yhs
prof marvel

[will52100]

Thanks.  Guess I should have provided a little more info.  I only shoot real black powder, no fake stuff, though I do reload some rifle and pistol with smokeless powders, but not many.  Love Graf's powder, btw.  I'm familiar with flintlocks, but only in 50 and 54 cal.  Don't have much choice for patches, my other rifles like pillow ticking, no idea how this one will like the thickness I've got.  May have to get some different thicknesses.

Also forgot to mention it's basically a southern mountain rifle with a 42" barrel, not sure how that's going to affect velocity, my others are a Jager and a 36" 54 cal.  This is my first "long" rifle.

I'm thinking about a 100 yards will be max range for this rifle, with maybe sighting in for 50?  It's a 40 cal after all, say squirrels and rabbits and maybe a close range deere if good shot placement is available.

Anyway, tickled with TVM's work.  I know some people give them a hard time because there not an exact copy of any historical rifle, but they do good work and it's in the spirit of, if not exactly rite.  The main thing for me is the fit and finish is spot on, if it shoots like it looks it'll be a tack driver.  Now I just need to find the time to get out and shoot it!

[wildman1]

Don't be afraid to try different granulations . I have a 50 cal Pennsylvania rifle that shoots better with 3f and a 45 cal TC Cherokee that shoots better with 2f. wM1

[will52100]

That'd odd, so far my 54 and 50 likes Swiss 2F, though Graf's does pretty good as well.

[DTS]

I used a Lyman mould #.395" that cast .398" X .397" in pure lead, as well as a #.400 Lyman mould that actually cast .400X.400 in pure lead.(X-ray wall sheeting)
If range shooting only and a water based lube (WWWF+Neetsfoot oil), I used 53.0gr. for 50 meter shooting, or 63gr. 2f. (WWWF+ Neetsfoot oil is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid (-35 to -45F) + approx 2 ounces of Neetsfoot oil per US quart or liter- around 33ounces of mix total. The oil slows evapouration in hot weather - & in the winter on the trail, it doesn't freeze.
If using a slippery lube, like Mr.Flintlock, Hoppe's #9 PLUS, LeHighValley Lube or Shenendoah Lube, I use 65gr.3f or 75gr. 2F.
I used a 12 ounce denim for patching, and this measures .022 to .0225" in my calipers - jaws squeezed between forefinger and thumb as hard as I can.
With either ball, I can shoot all day long, without any wiping being necessary and obtaining excellent accuracy - 1/2" to 3/4" groups off a rest at 50yards.
The bore on my rifle was .398", so even the smaller ones were bore size with the larger balls being .002" oversize. The barrel was a Goodoien with wide lands and narrow grooves.
In the other rifles, I use a ball .005" under bore size, with the same 12 ounce denim patch.

No wiping necessary when shooting a trail walk, for example.

For a hunting load, I use the same balls and patches, with Neetsfoot Oil or Track's Mink Oil.  for these, I use 60gr. fo 3F or 70gr. of 2F as they are not as slippery as the lubes noted above, but are slicker than the water based lubes.  For target shooting, ordinary spit works well, if you produce enough saliva. Many of us older chaps have had to revert to a made up lube.

For plinking and target, I've done just fine with GOEX. I've been saving the Swiss for my Sharps, but am currently trying it in the Model 76 Uberti Winchester.

[DTS]

One thing further- the further you shoot, the more powder you will need. By that I mean that about any load will give you tiny groups at 25 yards as even a smoothbore with only one sight is capable of shooting an inch or just over at 25 yards for 5 shots.
But - to shoot 50 or more yards takes more powder.

.40 is popular for Chunk shoots, commonly held in the Eastern States.  Most of those .40 shooters use between 65 and 75gr. of 3F. Those shooting .45's will generally use another 5gr. of powder.

.45's and .50's are usually favoured further West for plank shooting as-in Wyoming/Montana due to the wind that is ever present. The guys like to get them up around 2,000fps and thus use heavier charges. Both plank and chunk are usually shot at 60yards.

I should also note, it takes a decent ball and patch combination to work with heavier loads. Thin patches (less than about .020") have no place in accuracy events as they just do not shoot well enough at 50 to 100yards or beyond.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to experiment. I side my cleaning jags to be a tight fit using 2 thicknesses of flannelette cloth - like baby diapers or flannelette sheets.  These clean very nicely and get right into the corners of the rifling.

[will52100]

Thanks for the info.

I managed to get out today and test fire it.  I didn't shoot for groups, just wanted to set the sights and see what she could do.  Very pleased!  At 50 yards I had no trouble after filing the sights a bit to hit dead center of a 6" steel plate.  The few times I missed or was off a bit was my fault.  But the rifle balances extremely well and if I'll brace myself up against the roll bar on the mule I can pretty much hit center every time.  Will need more work and practice, as I only put about 20 rounds through it before it started sprinkling and was time to quit.

So far I'm liking my first load I tried, 40 grains of 3F Swiss, and after the first half dozen shots I used the same powder for the prime and could tell no difference between it and 4F.  My pillow ticking patches are .015 thick, have an old pair of blue jeans I might try as I thought the balls fit a might loose.  Though I did dry ball once and had to use a derlin ramrod and screw jag and vise to pull it so there not "that" loose.  Might see if I can get a .395 mould.  The Rice barrel has round bottom rifling, so that might aid in ease of loading, not to mention TVM did a deep crown.  I found with lubed pillow ticking I could easily tap the ball flush with the wood handle on my patch knife, then use the ram rod to run the ball down, no need for a short starter, though I used it for the most part to save wear and tear on the knife handle.

Now I just need to make a powder horn and when I settle on a load an antler measure.  And another possibles bag, been using a military surplus sack, but olive drab doesn't look rite!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

No magic, but a fine caliber. Just like a 16 is a fine shotgun bore.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?62011-40-Caliber-Flintlock

[will52100]

Thanks for the link.  I've got a 45 in the works, if I ever find time to work on it, but so far I'm really liking the 40 cal, not too big, not too small.  Kinda like the old 16 gauge.

[Dan Gerous]

Will, you're on the right track, starting with 30 grains of 3F. Try going up from there, but don't be surprised if you have to go the OTHER WAY. I had a .32 caliber that was all over the target with 35 grains and didn't tighten up until I dropped down to 20 grains. With too much powder, it was stripping the rifling!

[Blair]

Please keep in mind that many State regulate the caliber size for ML along with the game that maybe taken with that caliber.
Worth checking into? That would be the only thing that would turn me off of the .40 cal.
My best,
Blair

[pony express]

Pictures, pictures!

[will52100]

Here you go, it's southern basic, with a swamped 42" rice barrel, iron furniture, ++ premium curly maple stock, slier lock, double set triggers, wood patch box.

[Noz]

My experience with flintlocks is that there is a reason why percussion caps were invented.

[Blair]

There is also a reason why the "rock" ignition guns lasted so long.
What could one use "if" there were no percussion caps to be had?
My best,
Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The only .40 I have fired was a .40 cal. WHEEL LOCK pistol, made by Gabriel Law. 

Boy, was that lock time FAST! There was a reason the wheel lock persisted among wealthy hunters in Europe.

[will52100]

I'll grant you that flint locks are more susceptible to rain and moister, but the lock times can be as fast, if not faster, and loading is faster.  No fumbling for or with caps.  And I've seen plenty of caps not go bang.

The trouble with the wheel lock is the complexity, and the time to wind the spring.  That said, I'd love to attempt to build one one day.  Of course if you want the ultimate, get a Giradoni air rifle!  Talk about rapid fire and no fouling issues, nor smoke bloom to give your position away!

[Noz]

My opinions are twisted by a horrible experience with the worst gun I have ever owned, a Pedersoli 38 cal flintlock.  I traded it for a Tompson Center with a broken lock then sold the TC

[Thumb Buster]

Gotta' speak up here about flintlocks as I have a Thompson Center .50 Hawken known to those who have fired it as a 'flinchlock' or 'klatchlock' due to bad sparking and a mainspring chatter in the lock.  I have replaced the lock with an L&R Replacement and in using English black flints the spark shower goes directly into the pan and not toward the frizzen hinge pin.  That was part of the problem with the T/C lock plus no matter how hard I tried the flint would only strike half way, at best, down the frizzen with what sparks there were missing the pan.  Having fired a southpaw long gun in .54 with a Siler lock on it I can say that the ignition was seemingly faster than a caplock.  Also helps knowing how to set the flint and how to prime the pan, which surprises me in that no manufacturer tells the 'flinter' newbie the small nuances.  (Is this assumed?  ) This leads to many frustrations...at least it did in my experience.