annealing in oven?

[will52100]

Anybody ever tried annealing pistol brass in an oven?  I've only ever annealed about 50 45 colts with a torch.  It was an experiment to see if I could eliminate blow by in my Henry.  It worked, but was not really worth it time wise, and loading with a compressed load of black powder bulged several of the cases to where they wouldn't load.  I'm thinking I got them too soft.

I know about annealing with a torch, but was thinking of extending pistol brass life by annealing the whole case.  When I do get a split it's down the case nearly to the head.  Any idea what time and temp would be required?

[tyrel cody]

Anybody ever tried annealing pistol brass in an oven?  I've only ever annealed about 50 45 colts with a torch.  It was an experiment to see if I could eliminate blow by in my Henry.  It worked, but was not really worth it time wise, and loading with a compressed load of black powder bulged several of the cases to where they wouldn't load.  I'm thinking I got them too soft.

I know about annealing with a torch, but was thinking of extending pistol brass life by annealing the whole case.  When I do get a split it's down the case nearly to the head.  Any idea what time and temp would be required?

NO, you do NOT want to soften the base of a brass case; that is bad news.

http://www.annealingmachines.com/how-to-anneal.html

http://www.jprifles.com/bulletin/propost_august_2015_01_01.html

http://www.sinclairintl.com/GunTech/The-Not-So-Arcane-Art-of-Brass-Annealing/detail.htm?lid=16032

[will52100]

Kinda what I was thinking.  Also thought about maybe putting in a pan of water to cover the base.  Wish I had a time/temperature chart for brass.  If it was steel I'd know how to do it.  Anyway, more trouble than worth for pistol caliber ammo.  This is what I get up too late at night when I should be sleeping.

[Pettifogger]

Well, I'll tell you what.  I got a defective batch of brass from Starline once and they told me to put it (2000 rounds) in the oven.  I forgot the temperature and for how long but it didn't work all that well.  Ruined a stainless steel turkey pan (all the coating on the brass burned off and stuck to the pan) and I ripped the rims off some shells as they got stuck in my carbide dies.  After a good shot of One Shot they sized OK but an abnormal number of cases still split.  I should have just told them it was their problem and returned the brass. PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[will52100]

Good to know.  I haven't really had any problems, just the odd split case now and then after a lot of firings.  Don't see it much on the autos as I generally loose them before that.  The revolvers on the other hand don't chunk them into the grass, though the Henry does mean I loose a few now and then.

Reason I was thinking about it was someone posted on another forum about drying brass in there oven and forgetting about them and finding them annealed to where the bases were way too soft.  No idea of time or temp.

Would be nice though if I found a really easy and quick way to anneal 45colt just for the Henry.  May play around with some more some time.

[PJ Hardtack]

"There is no softer, gentler way ..."

Bite the bullet (or casing) and devise a simple annealing method. Something to do over the winter when it's too damn cold to be out there shooting.

I just bought 200 Star-Line 45-70 cases and since I've read that they may be hard, I'll be annealing them in batches of 50.

[rickk]

I don't think you can reach annealing temperatures in a baking oven. If you put the bases on a pan of water, I am just about positive you cant do it. The temperature of the brass wont go much above 212 as long as they are sitting in the water. There is not enough specific heat in hot air to bring the exposed portion of the brass up to temperature. Also, the water will quickly start boiling. The steam that rises off the surface of the water will keep the brass above the water line from getting much hotter than 212F.

[will52100]

Pretty much what I was thinking.  I was also wondering if anyone had an idea of specific time/temperatures for specific hardness of brass.  Kinda like a rockwell chart for brass.  I've looked around the net and haven't found anything though.  I was kinda wondering if it'd be possible to do a temper, not a full anneal, but to sort of half way soften the brass so it wouldn't damage the case head, but would make the work hardened mouth and body somewhat softer.

I get time I may build an annealer, that'd be the easy way to do it.  Just have to build it to handle pistol brass as well!

[PJ Hardtack]

I put together a device with a 'cup' made out of copper and steel fittings I had laying around. the 'cup' holds the brass case with a removable insert for cases of different lengths.

It is powered by an electric screwdriver. Been using it for years without a hitch. Most guys have enough stuff around to improvise a Rube Goldberg gadget without over-engineering it. No need to spend a lot of money on a commercial model or building a machine for a few hundred cases.

[Delmonico]

  Wish I had a time/temperature chart for brass.  If it was steel I'd know how to do it. 

http://lmgtfy.com/

[DTS]

Guys- when annealing indoors, always turn the lights out - anneal in a darkened room. I hold the case by the head, in my fingers and rotate the case neck in the flame of a MAPP Gas torch on a propane bottle. The temp is enough higher than a normal propane torch to be quite useable. When the necks start to turn dull reddish (cannot be seen in a lighted room), drop them into a bucket or container of water. Done.  Take them out when finished, roll them out of a cloth towel and sit them in the sun or put them on a cookie sheet in the over at 170 degrees for 30 minutes or so, to dry.
Been annealing brass since 1968.  Been annealing brass as above since I joined Saubier.com small bore forum and learned to do it this way.  It's the best and NEVER get an over-annealed case now, which did happen if annealing in a lighted room.

[Delmonico]

Guys- when annealing indoors, always turn the lights out - anneal in a darkened room. I hold the case by the head, in my fingers and rotate the case neck in the flame of a MAPP Gas torch on a propane bottle. The temp is enough higher than a normal propane torch to be quite useable. When the necks start to turn dull reddish (cannot be seen in a lighted room), drop them into a bucket or container of water. Done.  Take them out when finished, roll them out of a cloth towel and sit them in the sun or put them on a cookie sheet in the over at 170 degrees for 30 minutes or so, to dry.
Been annealing brass since 1968.  Been annealing brass as above since I joined Saubier.com small bore forum and learned to do it this way.  It's the best and NEVER get an over-annealed case now, which did happen if annealing in a lighted room.

I learned that before there was a net.   But back in the day we read books on reloading and learned how.

[will52100]

Thanks for the suggestion, as a bladesmith I know about light conditions changing what you see as "red", never gave annealing brass much thought though.

I think the issue I had with 45 colts being too soft was I was over heating the case and getting too soft too far down.  May just give it another try with the lights in the shop turned off.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I beat the .45 Colt blowback problem in my 1860 Henry by opening the mouth of a .44-40 case to accept a .454 bullet then fire forming the cases. Then you reload with a.454 bullet. That thin case mouth seals the chamber and leaves the lifter clean.

It is a PITA to form the cases but is worth the effort to keep the lifter and the inside of the frame clean. It takes a Gun Powder* load to support the bullet when loaded because the neck is so thin it will not have the grip to hold the bullet.

With true Gun Powder that is not a problem because the case is full and slightly compressed and the crimp holds everything together.

*Gun Powder is what is printed on the label of a can of DuPont FFFg in my collection. (AKA Holy Black)

Respectfully submitted
Bunk

[will52100]

Thanks, but I've got several thousand starline 45's.  I did do the toilet paper test, and only got a hint of soot.  That's with my gunpowder loads, not smokeless.  I've probably fired less than 200 rounds of smokeless through it, and somewhere north of 5K black powder when I stopped counting a few years ago.  I decided that the fouling wasn't bad enough to jump through hoops to eliminate.  I did find that the cases I annealed did not have any blow by whatsoever.  The ones that would chamber that is.