Italian "Gemmer" Sharps

[PJ Hardtack]

A friend is selling off his guns, to include an Italian-made "Gemmer" Sharps in 45-70. These are rare by any manufacturer and a custom order from Shiloh. Beautiful rifle!

Those familiar with the type know that it combines the best features of a Hawken ML along with the efficacy of the Sharps action.
He tried to sell it to me years ago and I balked as it was so damnably heavy (11.8 lbs.) to hold up in the offhand position! I believe that makes it ineligible for BPCR Silhouette as well.

It has the decorative buckhorn Hawken-type rear sight, cheek piece and under barrel ram rod that pay homage to it's Hawken heritage.

I'm strongly tempted .....

[Abilene]

Is it a Pedersoli?  I have seen some of those and they were nice indeed!

[ndnchf]

If you don't want it, I would be very interested - I'm serious. Thanks.

[PJ Hardtack]

Yep, a Ped, and just as purdy as some Shilohs I've seen.

[Coffinmaker]

Perhaps ...... I am ........ Remis PJ.

My understanding is just not there.  I looked up "Gemmer sharps" just for grins and giggles.  And, after perusing numerous photographs
of the rifle you speak of, I just don't understand.  WHY DON'T YOU ALREADY OWN IT???  Or, even, Is it on the way to your house??

My lord what a gorgeous rifle.  Were I a Big Bore single shot rifle dude,  I'd be all over one.  No decision necessary.  WOW!!

Coffinmaker

[Blair]

I truly have to agree with Coffinmaker on this one!
These are great long range Rifles!
11.8 pounds is not too heavy for any of the BPCR events I have played at hear in the States.
My best,
Blair

[ndnchf]

I couldn't agree more! I've had a hankerin for one for quite a while. One of these days....

[PJ Hardtack]

OK, OK, stop beating me up ..... !!!

I'll see what my wife has to say about it. NO rifle is worth marital disharmony. Been there - done that, and it ain't worth it. I'll have to sell something off to lessen the damage, but it's still going to eat a hole in the budget.

The maximum weight for a BPCR Silhouette rifle is 12.2 lbs, including sights. I thought it was less. So that excuse is gone. I do have on hand an unused MVA mid-range tang sight for a Sharps, assuming the Ped has the same hole spacing as a Shiloh.

I'll have to see what kind of a price I can negotiate with the seller. When he first offered it to me, I put it up to my shoulder and knew that it was NOT an off hand rifle in my hands! I find the .50 and .54 Hawkens to be the same and sold off a very nice .50 Browning Mountain Rifle for the same reason.

Simply too much rifle for me and I don't need to impress the big boys by shooting a 45-110 or 45-120. That's why I settled on the 45-70 and 50-70 as my BPCR calibres.

[PJ Hardtack]

I couldn't find a reference to the Gemmer models in Seller's book on the Sharps rifles. However, there was a photo of a Slotterbeck rifle which is quite similar - Hawken-style ram rod, ML rifle stock with crescent butt, DST, etc. Very fancy rifle! Even has sling swivels.

In Venturino's book on Buffalo Rifles, the sole mention is one pic of an Italian repro. I have to do some research on Slotterbeck and Gemmer to find out more about their styles.

[Gabriel Law]

The Hawken conversion of breech loading contemporary rifles probably all began as a result of John D. Baird's book "Hawken Rifles - the Mountain Man's Choice", in which he pictures and describes Spencer rifles that have been altered to look like Hawken rifles in Gemmer's shop.  The obvious extension of that is, why not a Sharps rifle then?

[Blair]

I think it is important to note that what Gemmer was doing with Breach loading firearms, weather percussion, rim fire or center fire cartridge, was all custom work based on what the customer requested. Gemmer focused on the older style Hawken Shop muzzle loading style type firearms.
This was all custom work based off of what the customer wanted. There is nothing like a standard Model type that I am aware of.
There are also several custom shops offering these modification. All may be based on different styles of Plains/half stocked type Rifles.
Generically speaking, these are often simply called "Gemmer's".
This is a fascinating area of study.
My best,
Blair

[dusty texian]

Around that time Carlos Gove was custom making some really fine plains rifle conversions , and like Blair said just one of many .,,DT

[PJ Hardtack]

If you google Gemmer and Slotterbeck rifles, you will get some gorgeous pictures! Warning - have a bib on as you will be drooling .... ;>)

[ndnchf]

I was going through my old Black Powder Report magazines from the mid 1980s and found an article and photos of an original Gemmer Spencer conversion. Very cool indeed. In another issue was an article about an original Sharps conversion to plains rifle style. But it was unmarked. It was very well made but the frontier gunsmith who made it was unknown.

[dusty texian]

Over the yrs. past , have seen a few Spencer Gemmer style conversions in pictures only. You bet the Hawken style influence on the 1870s cartridge rifles has to be the most beautiful rifle style ever made in my opinion.  In half stock or full stock . You can just picture one across a saddle of a horse on the plains . I got to stop hanging around you fellows , now I think I need another rifle,,,,,DT

[dusty texian]

For the Spencer folk! ,,,DT

[Blair]

I have always been attracted to the Spencer's that have been built up in and around the "Plains" style Muzzle Loading Rifles.
Marcot shows several in his book on "Spence Repeating Firearms".
Sharps, Remington and Springfield TD, single shoots were quite popular for this treatment. The Spencer's were somewhat unique in that they were a Repeater that lent themselves well to the modification.
My best,
Blair

[ChuckBurrows]

FWIW - the real Jeremiah Johnson reputedly killed a young Absaroka in order to obtain his Gemmer/Spenceer figuring it would be the cat's meow since it came from the Hawken shop. He later carried Winchester lever rifles.

As noted it was John Baird and gunsmith Ed Weber who came up with the modern idea of "Hawkenizing" Rolling Blocks and Sharps rifles after viewing original Gemmer/Spencers.

[dusty texian]

A picture of a Slotterbeck I think. Dang good looking Sharps ,,,,DT

[Blair]

ChuckBurrows,

I have heard that too. It was Johnson killing the Indian for that Spencer that started the vendetta depicted in the movie.
I do not know (remember) where the documentation comes from for this.
My best,
Blair