WILD HARE TIME !!! All Brass 410 & Round Ball

[Blair]

Perhaps my statement has some folks thinking?

The paper and plastic hulls in modern 410's are a lot thicker than the older metallic hulls.
Perhaps folks should try measuring these compared to the thin walled metallic cases?
Try taking apart a modern 410 slug. and comparing that to the solid bullet some folks are suggesting within this forum and ask yourselves what the difference maybe, and why?
My best,
Blair

[Cuts Crooked]

It's been done and is doable: http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hand-loading-for-rifles-and-handguns-sponsored-by-diamond-k-brass/410-brass-shell-with-45-bullet-load-data/

[Coffinmaker]

Way Cool information.  Thanks Cuts.  This is being FUN!!

Coffinmaker

[Noz]

If'n you have a 41 mag and want to play, remove the cylinder. Drop fired 30-30 cases in. Mark at the cylinder mouth and cut the 30-30 cases off with whatever you have handy.  Load with a little Unique and a big wad of toilette paper. Fire form the 30-30 to the 41 chamber.
Use 410 loading dat and load your very own 41 shot shells.

[DTS]

If it chambers .410, it should chamber a .444 marlin case. You can fireform them to your chamber then load shot or ball.

A better patterning load is 12gr. of Unique with a shortened .410 wad and 1/2ounce of 6's or 7 1/2's. Does better in full or modified chokes than paper or plastic hulls.

Subbing round balls should work just as well. I would still use the .410 wad and balls that fit inside.

Start with 1 ball and the same 12gr. Unique - probably use 2 if you want - or use slug data from a loading manual, like Lyman produces.

A .410 wad with 3 000 is a factory 'defense' load right now.

I used a .44 mag. gas check crimped in the .44 seater die for over-shot wad - worked. Some guys cut thicker card stock for the overshot wad, crimping in the .444 or maybe try a .44mag./.44spl. seater die. I didn't try that - might work.

edited to add - Black powder loads and plastic wads usually don't go together, but cards should work - or mayb ejust the gas-check portion of the wad?

[wildman1]

edited to add - Black powder loads and plastic wads usually don't go together, but cards should work - or mayb ejust the gas-check portion of the wad?

Could you elaborate on this? I must be doing something wrong as I shoot a few thousand BP loads with plastic wads every year with no problem. wM1

[Coffinmaker]

This stwaz being a lot of fun.  However, my motivation for working up a 410 Brass Case & Round Ball load has evaporated.  PFFIT!!   

I have subsequently (learned new wurd) been able to score a Knew-2-Me H&R Handi Rifle, 38-55 Target Version.  Now I'm gonna play
wid dat!! 

Coffinmaker

[DTS]

Could you elaborate on this? I must be doing something wrong as I shoot a few thousand BP loads with plastic wads every year with no problem. wM1

Good for you. Glad they work for you as well.
In my 12 bore which incidentaly had nice smooth bores, BP loads would melt some part of the plastic wads and foul the bore with it. I have been told this also happens in smoothbore ML's and because of this, many smoothbore ML shotgun shooters recommend not to use plastic wads. Perhaps this is particular only to WWAA which is what I was using. They patterned just fine, I just didn't like the plastic fouling.

[Lefty Dude]

This stwaz being a lot of fun.  However, my motivation for working up a 410 Brass Case & Round Ball load has evaporated.  PFFIT!!   

I have subsequently (learned new wurd) been able to score a Knew-2-Me H&R Handi Rifle, 38-55 Target Version.  Now I'm gonna play
wid dat!! 

Coffinmaker

.36 cal round balls & 30-30 cases necked up to .379, shoot very well in 375 Winchester's & 38-55 Handi's. The load is in the old Lyman cast bullet handbook.

Try it you like it !

[Coffinmaker]

Tanks Lefty. 
Now I just gotta find an "old" lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

Coffinmaker

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

.36 cal round balls & 30-30 cases necked up to .379, shoot very well in 375 Winchester's & 38-55 Handi's. The load is in the old Lyman cast bullet handbook.

Try it you like it !

My copy is from 1973, and doesn't show a roundball load for the .38-55. HST, the concept seems reasonable to me and should work. Didn't Keith and Matthews both have roundball loads in the .45-70. Just scale it down.

[wildman1]

Good for you. Glad they work for you as well.
In my 12 bore which incidentaly had nice smooth bores, BP loads would melt some part of the plastic wads and foul the bore with it. I have been told this also happens in smoothbore ML's and because of this, many smoothbore ML shotgun shooters recommend not to use plastic wads. Perhaps this is particular only to WWAA which is what I was using. They patterned just fine, I just didn't like the plastic fouling.

That plastic fouling cleans out easier than cleaning a SG shot with smokiless. I spray the inside of the barrel with Windex or diluted Simple green till wet from one end to the other set the barrels aside while I clean one handgun (15 mins) wad  a half of a wet paper towel in each barrel and push it thru with a cleaning rod followed by a dry one and then lube patch. The barrels are completely clean and shiney. No using a brush or scrubbing at all. wM1

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Wildman; There is a simple work-around. Use a card wad below the plastic wad. You may think it's funny, but it's snot--NOT!

[Lefty Dude]

My cleaning method for my SXS, after shooting shells with plastic wads & BP;

Remove barrels, cork muzzle ends with old Wine corks. While corking, have a kettle of Hot Water boiling.
Pour boiling water in breach end till barrels are full. Wait 20 minutes.
Uncork barrels, and dump each barrel separately, The black snakes will come out along with all the crud. handle with a towel or old hot pad.
Run dry patches thru bores, then patch up a lube patch and run thru each barrel.
Wipe down outside of barrels, action with patch of simple green & water mixture, 50/50.
Use rag with Ballistol and wipe down all metal parts.
assemble and set aside for the next match.

It took longer for me to type this than it does to do the cleaning as indicated above. (Well almost I wait the 20 minutes for the boiling water to do it job.)

[wildman1]

Wildman; There is a simple work-around. Use a card wad below the plastic wad. You may think it's funny, but it's snot--NOT!

I use the over powder cards from Circle Fly in PA. wM1

[Lefty Dude]

My copy is from 1973, and doesn't show a roundball load for the .38-55. HST, the concept seems reasonable to me and should work. Didn't Keith and Matthews both have roundball loads in the .45-70. Just scale it down.

IIRC; it is in the 375 Winchester section.

[Coffinmaker]

My partner in crime for Frontiersman has a dandy load for the 45-70, using Round Ball.  I believe he runs 35Gr 2F, topped with ground corncob and the Ball.  Shoots like a laser, recoil is like a 22.  Really fun load to shot in a Handi-Rifle.  I plan to do much the same with
my new 38-55.  Only difference will be using the EPP UG-36.

I have been shooting BP 12Ga a friend loads for the past two seasons.  He used a plastic wad which left a trace of plastic on the inside of the bore.  To clean, I just sprayed the bores with a glass cleaner the local windshield repair shop uses, pushed a patch thru and out came the "plastic snake skin."  Follow'd it with a dry patch and and oil patch (Mobil 1), wipe down the outside with Mobil 1.  Done.  Quick and easy.

I use the same routine for my own Brass Hull 12Ga.  I load the usual Over Powder Wad, Cushion Wad, over shot card (1), shot, 3 Over shot cards, no glue.  Clean up the same way, no plastic residue though.  Clean-up is a snap.

Coffinmaker

[DTS]

I was always taught that a 410 shotgun was based off of a .41 caliber. Not the normal shotgun bore gage system.
Is this dependent on the chock dia. at the muzzle?
My best,
Blair

.410 Shotguns are supposed to have .410" bores. The name has nothing to do with the choke dimensions.  You are correct that .410's are .410 bore Shotguns, not .410 Gauge.  A 410 Gauge (or 41 gauge) actually has a .484" bore dimension.

Gauge is decided by the number of pure lead balls that size, that weighs 1 pound.

Thus, a 41 gauge would mean 41 balls that size making a pound. 7000gr. divided by 41 = 170.7gr., which is the weight of a .484" pure lead ball.

On the other hand, a .410 bore ball weighs 103.2gr. in pure lead.

[Blair]

DTS,

Thanks, this was info I already had.
My question was related to the Handi-Rifle designation of 410-45.
Is the bore on these the same bore as is found on the basic .410 Shotgun?
If they are not the same bore diameters, then why was no one suggesting this difference?
My best,
Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

IIRC; it is in the 375 Winchester section.

Lefty; That caliber was not included in the CBH 1973 edition. Scaling up & down is a valid concept.

Blair; I have neither a .410 n or a .45 Colt rifle so I couldn't help there. The original .410 concept was taking a .44-40 levergun intended for wild west show trick shooters and omitting the rifling step. The result was a mini shotgun for aerial shots.  Do you have access to the firearms in question and do some measuring?