WILD HARE TIME !!! All Brass 410 & Round Ball

[Coffinmaker]

   OK Boys and Girls.  What time is it??  Why it's Wild Hare time (Think Howdy Doody theme)  I think I want to use all brass 410
hulls to launch a Round Ball.
I happen to have a rifle with a .45 Colt/410 barrel.  Really long chamber to allow the 410.  Lotta bullet jump.  So ...... I had a
thought (Oh, the pain!)  Why not stuff a 410 all brass case with the .45 Colt load of BP, then filler, then cap it with a Round Ball!!

Gotta be somebody here on the forum whose done it and survived the experience 

Wanna Share???  Curios are I 

Coffinmaker

[Freedom]

 well the 410 shotgun shell is...well, .410"...and the barrel of your combo will be .452+/-...so this probly won't work quite as well as you hope

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

.452 is really close to a .44 percussion roundball. Run one up your .410 barrel to verify your actual bore, choke dimensions.

.444 Marlin cases have been used for .410 brasser loads.

[Freedom]

 a 444 marlin is actually .429" diameter... a 44cal percussion revolver ball is .452-.457 dia.

There is no way your 45colt/410 barrel is anything less than .451

[Coffinmaker]

Ah Cummon Boys and Girls.  I'm Kinda old, and was a 'smith for a long, long time.  I KNOW what all the dimensions are.  What I don't
know is the result of somebody trying it, just for Grins and Giggles, and actually surviving the experience with a good handle on
"what happened" when they touched it off.
After all, I don't want to be the first to set one off next to my head, without an idea of what is likely to happen.  I only have one head after all, and only one off hand.  I wanna be careful here.  I mean, sure, I'm gonna try it anyway, but would like a "been there, done that"
report before I do.

Coffinmaker 

[Freedom]

well then you know it will be just fine...still not sure how you are going to get a big ball in a little brass...but you could scoop fill the case with real BP and cork it with the ball and fire away without much problem I'm sure...lol Might even bump up a pure lead ball to seal the bore for fairly good results at close range. Of course if it's a cheap Brazilian or antique it might just blow right up in your face..

I have shot a LOT of 3" 410's  out of my 45-70

[Professor Marvel]

My Dear Mad Coffin -

I have a half-a-hint, can you compare the volume of the .410 brass case to the volume of a .45-70 ?

We discussed this at length on another forum, I do believe You should be safe if you use a solid modern-steel frame and stick to RB ,
or stubby little bullets (to avoid the excess pressure caused by too heavy bullets with too much bearing surface)
since  Hoof-Hearted  did a cartridge conversion for a couple of guys on strong new Colt Walkers or Dragoons, rechambering a Kirst  cylinder to ~ 45 extra long or 45-70 ish :
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,45956.0.html

and there is this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Black_Powder_Magnum

whilst the fellow calls it a .45 Black Powder Magnum, as Hoof pointed out it is really more of a
45-60 or 45 1.8" or some such, and is actually using the .460 S&W case.....

But that's ok, as I am building a single shot rifle based on .500 S&W brass ( and calling it a .50-60 BP only ) because I got a giant
bag of .500 S&W brass much cheaper than .50-70 brass..... and it's easy for a hack like myself to ream or bore something that almost resembles a real-live non-tapered chamber.  I am putting a .50 octagon 1-in-48 barrel ( for stubby little bullets) with a simple straight-walled chamber, onto a trapdoor action with plans to gemmerize it...

sooooo
whatever did you have in mind?

yhs
prof marvel

[Coffinmaker]

Herr Professeur,
Nope.  Don't have a comparison of the internal volume of the 410 case as opposed to the 45-70.  Nada clue and I don't have an all brass 410 to start the compare.
I happen to have shot a "Plainsman" side match this past weekend and had lodes of fun.  Some year back, I sold off my single shot rifles
as there was no one in my area playing with big bore singles.  Boo Hisssssss.   But Wait !!!!
I happen to have a Thompson Center Contender.  I happen to have a .45 Colt/410 barrel for it.  A nifty 16 1/2 inch barrel.  But since the chamber is cut to allow 410 shotgun, the bullet "jump" form a 45 Colt case is a long one.  Thought it might be fun to use a 410 case
with a round ball.  Alternately, considering the EPP UG-45 as a projectile.
Also, would seem I could use a 460 S&W Magnum as well, as it is my intention to use only BP or Sub.  
the end game is to arrive at my nest plainsman match, with a Thompson Contender with Thumbhole stock and the 45/410 barrel and
display it has an exposed hammer!!  Should be Grins and Giggles.
Waddia Think???  Fun??

Coffinmaker

PS:  HOOF and a guy he built a gun for had a different name than 45 BP Magnum.  Don't remember what it was.  Yes I do, it was the
45 "Brimstone."

[Good Troy]

the end game is to arrive at my nest plainsman match, with a Thompson Contender with Thumbhole stock and the 45/410 barrel and
display it has an exposed hammer!!  Should be Grins and Giggles.
Waddia Think???  Fun??

Maybe you could change your alias to "Troublemaker"! 



(Please view this comment as respectful, and an attempt at humor)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

FWIW There is some stuff on google that closely resembles whats happnin' here; 

https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=38953

I checked out youtube for the usual collection of yahoos, but not a lot of real help. With the Contender, I'd say its possible with a case and a projectile that reasonably match the dimensions. One youtuber tried a .44 RM in an old beat up .410. It shot, the gun held up, but the case split. I'd try a .45 LC or a .44-40 case

This showed more promise;

and this;   

[Freedom]

I had a friend that got a Uberti C&B 1858 Remington. He put a 6 round R&D conversion cylinder in it. Since the barrel of the Remington said "44cal" he got a box of 44remington mags and started shooting. He didn't like the way the gun shot so he sold it to me for dirt cheap with an empty box of 44 brass ..... Well, I didn't even know what he had done until I tried to load the brass and none of the brass would fit into my 44 dies...LOL the brass was just blown out to 45 colt demensions and the 1858 was no worse for ware guess the .429 bullet just bounced down the barrel without raising pressures.

[Lefty Dude]

Well now, I have made a similar round for my Bond Derringer 45/410 Snake Slayer. I developed a 410/40 caliber round ball load.
I use a magtech brass case, a measured amount WW296 smokeless powder, homemade over powder card, Then I use a WW 410 plastic wad as a sabot. I place a 40 cal. ML ball in the plastic sabot and shove it in the brass case. this is a tight friction fit, BTW.

I suppose you could sub. the 296 with APP or Goex.

A fun load to shoot in the Bond, and with two 40 cal balls in the sabot it is a handful indeed.

Yes, you might call me a "Wild Hare".

[Coffinmaker]

Good Troy ........ 

I just happen to RESEMBLE THAT    Yep, would be me

Lefty ........

Velley Interestink!!  I may have to look into that.  Although, I think, with APP and the right filler with a 451 Round Ball, could be real fun.

Of course, the rifle isn't SASS legal for the intended purpose, but now that I have the hair brained idea ................. 

Coffinmaker

[Hoof Hearted]

Well.....................

Contrary to popular belief I like to 'speriment a bit!

I have a Saiga .410 shotgun that I shoot roundballs in. In fact I put 3 or 4 in a 3.5" case! It's a hoot to shoot and FOUR .380 balls per shot is some serious firepower!

BUT...........a .380 ball is not really going to fly very straight out of that bore.........

What about a heel base or hollow base projectile?

HH

[Lefty Dude]

I measured the inside case mouth of the Brass 410. It appears to be .440", using my pin gage & micrometer.

Was just cleaning out my casting area of the shop. I ran across a Lyman 2 cavity mold I bought at a Gun Show years ago. The mold is marked 451 so I thought it would drop .451". Wrong ! The ball drops at .445". In the next few weeks I'll fire up the pot and cast a few.

This just may be the ball for the .410 RB load. If so Coffin I send ya a few to play with.

Question for you fellow casters. What lead drops larger in size from the mold, pure lead or WW alloy? I am to lazy to open my Lyman cast bullet handbook.

[Blair]

I was always taught that a 410 shotgun was based off of a .41 caliber. Not the normal shotgun bore gage system.
Is this dependent on the chock dia. at the muzzle?
My best,
Blair

[wildman1]

I measured the inside case mouth of the Brass 410. It appears to be .440", using my pin gage & micrometer.

Was just cleaning out my casting area of the shop. I ran across a Lyman 2 cavity mold I bought at a Gun Show years ago. The mold is marked 451 so I thought it would drop .451". Wrong ! The ball drops at .445". In the next few weeks I'll fire up the pot and cast a few.

This just may be the ball for the .410 RB load. If so Coffin I send ya a few to play with.

Question for you fellow casters. What lead drops larger in size from the mold, pure lead or WW alloy? I am to lazy to open my Lyman cast bullet handbook.

WW. wM1

[Lefty Dude]

Thanks wM1, thought so but not sure.

[Hoof Hearted]

I measured the inside case mouth of the Brass 410. It appears to be .440", using my pin gage & micrometer.

Was just cleaning out my casting area of the shop. I ran across a Lyman 2 cavity mold I bought at a Gun Show years ago. The mold is marked 451 so I thought it would drop .451". Wrong ! The ball drops at .445". In the next few weeks I'll fire up the pot and cast a few.

This just may be the ball for the .410 RB load. If so Coffin I send ya a few to play with.

Question for you fellow casters. What lead drops larger in size from the mold, pure lead or WW alloy? I am to lazy to open my Lyman cast bullet handbook.

I guess I should have mentioned that I use WW plastic hulls.............didn't mean to insinuate the ID of a magtech brass case was .380

Regards, HH

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I was always taught that a 410 shotgun was based off of a .41 caliber. Not the normal shotgun bore gage system.
Is this dependent on the chock dia. at the muzzle?
My best,
Blair

I think I read somewhere that the .410 was a wildcatted .44-40 shotshell like the wild west show performers used to use?  Anyway measure and cast soft.