Just my luck

[Jake C]

Well, I was able to pick up an Uberti '51 Navy London model as a Wedding Gift (the Missus is a wonderful young woman indeed). And man, I can see why folks held onto their Navies for so long. The gun balances well, points well, and is comfortable in my hands. I replaced the trigger/bolt spring with a wire spring, disassembled and cleaned the gun, smoothed out a few spots, made some BP lube, and waited patiently to take it to the range. Only issues is it is a pain to get that barrel off, but hopefully that'll get better with use.

Now I had ordered some slix-shot nipples, but they haven't arrived quite yet. I had originally planned on not shooting it until after I got those in, but I got impatient and took it to the range today on my lunch break. Loaded up the cylinder, smeared on some lube, capped the nipples, and took two shots. Dead on accurate, hit the target's sternum area (where I was pointing/aiming). Tried to cock the hammer, and discovered that a cap had fallen into the action and jammed it completely! I'll need to do a full disassembly tonight, as I didn't have my tools with me at the range. And now I've just found out that those new nipples are at home right now. If only I had been a bit more patient, today wouldn't have been such a tease.

Shame too, cause it is a heck of a gun.

[45 Dragoon]

Those nips aren't necessarily a fix for that.

Just sayin . . . . .  and don't look now but,  . . . . . . .  your arbor's too short!  Don't worry, the missus will never notice unless you tell her !!!!

Sorry , couldn't pass that up!!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Thumb Buster]

Jake, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with such luck.    I had that happen to me once right after arriving at the range and sure enough all my screwdrivers were sitting on the workbench where I had left them while packing up for the trip to the range.   Finally got the errant cap out and took measures to prevent such a thing from happening again.  (That darned hammer notch which some folks fill in had burrs on it that grabbed the busted caps.  Missed that one!)  Oh...I know it will but hopefully the chances have been reduced.

Enjoy that '51.  

Love these cap guns!

[Jake C]

Those nips aren't necessarily a fix for that.

Just sayin . . . . .  and don't look now but,  . . . . . . .  your arbor's too short!  Don't worry, the missus will never notice unless you tell her !!!!

Sorry , couldn't pass that up!!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Quite alright! I'm going to ask a really dumb question here, but in the spirit of the only dumb question is the question not asked, what exactly is the arbor? you'll have to forgive me, still fairly new to Old West guns, especially black powder pieces.

[Jake C]

Jake, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with such luck.    I had that happen to me once right after arriving at the range and sure enough all my screwdrivers were sitting on the workbench where I had left them while packing up for the trip to the range.   Finally got the errant cap out and took measures to prevent such a thing from happening again.  (That darned hammer notch which some folks fill in had burrs on it that grabbed the busted caps.  Missed that one!)  Oh...I know it will but hopefully the chances have been reduced.

Enjoy that '51.  

Love these cap guns!

Glad you were able to get yours fixed at the range. Luckily, the folks here knew I hadn't been in there for five minutes, so they gave me a voucher to come back later and finish up my session.

And believe me, I will. I was kind of skeptical of al lthe '51 Navy praise, but I'll eat my words. Sam Colt really struck gold with that firearm.

[Coffinmaker]

Jake,
the Arbor is that great ribbed round rod sticking out that the cylinder rotates on.  45Dragoon insinuated yours it too short.  Humpf.
I maintain the hole in the barrel lug is too deep    Either way, your gonna have to fix that pretty soon. 

Coffinmaker

[Jake C]

Jake,
the Arbor is that great ribbed round rod sticking out that the cylinder rotates on.  45Dragoon insinuated yours it too short.  Humpf.
I maintain the hole in the barrel lug is too deep    Either way, your gonna have to fix that pretty soon. 

Coffinmaker

Ah, right. I ha dkind of assumed that was it, but confirmation is good. Looks like Goon has it right though. Arbor is too short. I can tell just by eyeballing it, now that I know what to look for.

[Jake C]

Best pictures I could get with my phone

[45 Dragoon]

Jake,
Thanks for the pics. That "test" is hard to do these days because the arbor is keyed and won't go all the way in until the barrel is in line correctly. Just drop a washer or two in the hole and see what the difference is. You can measure the gap at the frame/ barrel lug and take some material off the "washer stack" (stop when the barrel lug meets the frame) you can now epoxy the stack in the barrel assy (ie JBWeld)) Now you can go for the barrel/cyl clearance. The wedge needs to be in and under tension (tapped in) when you measure the clearance as you remove material from the end of the arbor (to close the barrel/cyl clearance) I stop at .002".

Hope this gives you some idea of what to do.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Jake C]

Jake,
Thanks for the pics. That "test" is hard to do these days because the arbor is keyed and won't go all the way in until the barrel is in line correctly. Just drop a washer or two in the hole and see what the difference is. You can measure the gap at the frame/ barrel lug and take some material off the "washer stack" (stop when the barrel lug meets the frame) you can now epoxy the stack in the barrel assy (ie JBWeld)) Now you can go for the barrel/cyl clearance. The wedge needs to be in and under tension (tapped in) when you measure the clearance as you remove material from the arbor (to close the barrel/cyl clearance) I stop at .002".

Hope this gives you some idea of what to do.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

Thank you kindly. I'll squirrel around with it a bit tomorrow, see what I can do with it.

[Jake C]

Jake,
Thanks for the pics. That "test" is hard to do these days because the arbor is keyed and won't go all the way in until the barrel is in line correctly. Just drop a washer or two in the hole and see what the difference is. You can measure the gap at the frame/ barrel lug and take some material off the "washer stack" (stop when the barrel lug meets the frame) you can now epoxy the stack in the barrel assy (ie JBWeld)) Now you can go for the barrel/cyl clearance. The wedge needs to be in and under tension (tapped in) when you measure the clearance as you remove material from the end of the arbor (to close the barrel/cyl clearance) I stop at .002".

Hope this gives you some idea of what to do.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

What do you use to file down the arbor? A dremel or metal file or something? Or is so little material being taken off that emry paper would work.

[45 Dragoon]

You can make a fixture to hold the arbor vertical (I use various cylinders) which will allow you to sand the end. I use 220 and 320 grit paper on 1/4" glass. That is an easy set up that can be used to true surfaces as well as fitting parts. I also use a large Porter Cable disc sander (permanently set at 90 deg.) sometimes. It's nice but the "paper on glass" is the best for control. I use P on G  to set cartridge conversion barrel/cyl clearances to .0015 (if end runout will allow. It's never a problem with Kirst.)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Coffinmaker]

I, on the other hand, am, Brave, Courageous, and True.  Also eat my Wheeties for Breakfast and ALL my Spinach.  So .......
I use a nice sharp (fairly new) bastard file.  Understanding, you must know how to run a file. technique is important.
You will only be removing a very small amount of metal and it is important to keep it square.

I also have a rather nice plate of 3/8 Float Glass.  VERY flat.  Smooth polished side so you don't slice and dice yer fingers    Same procedure 45 Dragoon uses. (there is a secret handshake too) 

I also suggest you "dress" the end of the Arbor (tech term for that Great Ribbed Rod Thinge) so the barrel lug will slide on and off nicely and allow you to also turn it when you make your measurements.

Coffinmaker

[PJ Hardtack]

Jake, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with such luck.    I had that happen to me once right after arriving at the range and sure enough all my screwdrivers were sitting on the workbench where I had left them while packing up for the trip to the range.   Finally got the errant cap out and took measures to prevent such a thing from happening again.  (That darned hammer notch which some folks fill in had burrs on it that grabbed the busted caps.  Missed that one!)  Oh...I know it will but hopefully the chances have been reduced.

Enjoy that '51.  

Love these cap guns!

Need I point out that this doesn't happen to Remington shooters .... ;>) Mine happily throw of their caps when I recock the gun.
But Colt "wedgie" shooters seem to enjoy the aggravation.

[45 Dragoon]

PJ,
Keep in mind that Remies have about 30 yrs. R&D on the Colt open top.
In defense of the o.t., once the arbor problem is corrected (Pietta seems to be getting a handle on this), a simple cap post will render cap jams a thing of the past. Unlike Remies, you will be able to shoot 100+ rounds with no cylinder binding (try that with a Remie). I know, I know . . . . you can have a bushing put in which will clear that problem up.

But, speaking of caps flying off, if you'll watch the video of brushhippie fanning his '51 (you can see it on my website), he shows it again in slow motion at the end and you can see the caps flying to the side.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Jake C]

Howdy Goon,

Did what you said, with the JB Weld and the Washer and all that. Worked like a charm! Took a half hour range session and fired. Only FTFs were my fault (sprayed down the revolver to help with fouling, some of the spray got into the chambers and led to ignition troubles, had to recap and try those ones again). I added another washer for a better cylinder gap to hopefully mitigate the fouling issue, but otherwise went great. Thanks for the advice, it was extremely helpful.

The smoke and flame, and that BP boom turned lots of heads! Accurarcy was okay for just plinking (about 90% of my shots were about where I was pointing). I imagine if it was being handled by a better marksman, the Navy would be a tack driver.

I still prefer my '75 Remington, it just handles better for me, but I love the '51 Navy. There's something about how it looks. Just timeless.

[Coffinmaker]

OK Jake,
I'm just a couple of bubbles off center    I shoot my Pietta Snubbie Cap Guns for CAS as Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.  They MUST run smooth, they MUST NOT suck caps.  PERIOD. 
There are two way to beat the fouling.  One way:  Really tight tolerances.  I don't personally subscribe to that.  I'm old school and hard headed (Stubborn to quote my sweetie).
Second method:  I use a cylinder loading stand.  I take the gun apart EVERY stage, wipe down the breach end of the barrel and wipe down the cylinder face.  Wipe down the arbor, drop or two of oil, reload the cylinder and put it back together.  It actually goes really quick.
DO NOT "spray" the gun down (you already learned that).
To beat cap jams, there are also two methods.  First method:  Cap Guards.  Plate the narrowed hammer fits through that stops (you hope)
the cap from coming back.  I don't subscribe to that method.
Method number 2:  Cap Rake.  A simple post installed in the front of the hammer channel that stops the caps from coming off and coming back.  It's what I do and how I set up my own guns.
Almost forgot.  This belongs WAY up at the top.  Stock nipples suck.  They work, but they suck.  As soon as I get a gun out of the box, I trash the OEM nipples and install Slixshot nipples.  Then run lighter springs 

Coffinmaker

[45 Dragoon]

Jake,
 Must be something wrong. Like Coffinmaker alluded to, tight tolerances are the way to go. My service calls for a .002 barrel/cyl clearance (in fired position. Hammer down, cyl. locked and clearance measured while pulling back on the cylinder). That plus a cap post (some say rake . . . looks more like a post  ) and you should get 100 or more shots fired before any take down.
 How big is the clearance on your '51?

With all the other stuff (bolt block, action stop and a few little tricks) they should be absolutely trouble free shooters!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

One "trick" is to set back the right side of the hammer face so that only the left side does the "poppin"! That helps a much lightened action be a reliable shooter!  (Shhhhhhhhh  don't tell anybody)

[Jake C]

Jake,
 Must be something wrong. Like Coffinmaker alluded to, tight tolerances are the way to go. My service calls for a .002 barrel/cyl clearance (in fired position. Hammer down, cyl. locked and clearance measured while pulling back on the cylinder). That plus a cap post (some say rake . . . looks more like a post  ) and you should get 100 or more shots fired before any take down.
 How big is the clearance on your '51?

With all the other stuff (bolt block, action stop and a few little tricks) they should be absolutely trouble free shooters!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

One "trick" is to set back the right side of the hammer face so that only the left side does the "poppin"! That helps a much lightened action be a reliable shooter!  (Shhhhhhhhh  don't tell anybody)

It is now .002. The arbor was still a hair short on this most recent range trip, I had just wanted to get a performance test (I also had a free half hour of range time that was about to expire) so I'll let ya'll know how it performs now.

[45 Dragoon]

Oh, Ok, sounds like we're on the right track!!
(You just wanted me to give away a secret didn't ya?!!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com