Acceptability of Reproduction Sharps .45-70 Carbine

1961MJS · June 02, 2016, 09:46:33 PM

Hi again

I'm working up a load for my Cavalry Sharps and have a question. I plan on using this rifle for GAF and I have a second Sharps for silhouette matches. How should I determine how long to make the rounds? Should they touch the rifling? Should I make them the book dimensions? Other ideas?

Sorry, not coming to Muster, I have to work.

Later

Drydock · June 02, 2016, 09:53:41 PM

GAF has long strings of fire with no cleaning. Load your rounds to spec. oal for higher reliability.

1961MJS · June 02, 2016, 11:25:52 PM

Thanks, that was what I was considering. Silhouette shooters get to clean every string.

Later

Niederlander · June 03, 2016, 07:53:18 AM

What Drydock said. We're not talking hair splitting accuracy here, but total reliability is pretty much a necessity.

1961MJS · June 03, 2016, 01:32:12 PM

Hi, I went back and read some of Paul A. Matthews book Shooting the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle and he recommends that you load so that you don't have to push the round in because you can't use the bolt as leverage and cam the action shut. You'll also be able to eject an unfired round which isn't a given if you load the bullet into the rifling. Nice to know we agree with the expert(s)

Later

1961MJS · February 13, 2017, 09:52:33 PM

Hi

I'm working up a load on the Cavalry Sharps and I'm have sight issues. The two places being pointed to in the picture are loose.

I can use the sights at 50 yards, but I have no clue what's going on at 100 yards. Are there any other good options for sights on a Chiappa Cavalry Sharps? I could get a medium range Soule vernier sight from Steve Baldwin, or a Marble Improved sight that would fit. Are either allowed / period correct? I looked at C. Sharps Arms, they have buck horn sights, are those period correct for the Cavalry? From the under 50 times I shot the Cavalry Sharps so far, I could have done last years match in decent shape with the exception of the long range leg.

What are my GAF legal options (so to speak?)

Niederlander · February 13, 2017, 10:24:57 PM

For what it's worth, original sights have the same problem.

1961MJS · February 13, 2017, 10:38:58 PM

Quote from: Niederlander on February 13, 2017, 10:24:57 PM
For what it's worth, original sights have the same problem.

Jeez. Dead Trooper. I could shoot fine at 50 yards at the bench rest range. I could move the sliding part of the sight up and down a little to get the rear sight up slightly, but when I fired it was all over. I wasn't shooting anything hot either. Somehow I doubt a tang sight is really that correct unfortunately.

Thanks

1961MJS · February 15, 2017, 08:07:53 AM

Hi

Let's try my question this way. I need better sights on my Cavalry Sharps to compete in the long range portion of the match and also to successfully work up a load for the rifle. The Chiappa sights are loose and can only be used at short range. I have these options:

1. Replace the barrel sights with the Smith Enterprises if they fit. I'll email Buffalo arms and check.
2. Replace the barrel sights with the C. Sharps arms buckhorn sight.
3. Add a Soule Vernier sight to the tang. The sight itself could be removed for the closer range part of the competition.
4. Add a Marble Improved sight to the tang. This is a lower cost alternative, but would have to be wholly removed for competition. The base is much larger on the Marble that the ones on the Verniers.

In a quick run through of Doug McChristian's book, I saw nothing helpful with respect to the sights on a Sharps. The Officer's model Trapdoors had tang sights, but not the regular issue models. The Sharps used was supposed to be an old Civil War model in .50-70, and mainly issued to the troops for hunting, and to contract employees.

If legal to shoot, I would like to put in a Soule Vernier tang sight. If not legal to shoot with, I might do it anyway as an aide in working up a load. If it fits, I might also put in the Smith Enterprises sight, they make one where the long range slide has a locking mechanism.

Thanks

Pitspitr · February 15, 2017, 08:54:42 AM

The tang sight would be legal in the Buffalo Scout category, but not the Military Single Shot category.

The rear sight on my original Spencer looks almost identical to your picture. Like yours the slider didn't want to stay where I put it. I got frustrated one day, grabbed a pair of pliers and pinched it together. Now it's hard to move but at least it stays where I put it.

1961MJS · February 15, 2017, 09:03:21 AM

Quote from: Pitspitr on February 15, 2017, 08:54:42 AM
The tang sight would be legal in the Buffalo Scout category, but not the Military Single Shot category.

The rear sight on my original Spencer looks almost identical to your picture. Like yours the slider didn't want to stay where I put it. I got frustrated one day, grabbed a pair of pliers and pinched it together. Now it's hard to move but at least it stays where I put it.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. If Steve Baldwin has any mid range verniers in stock, I'll get one and pull it off for competition. I'm concerned that I can't see a 300 yard target with buckhorn sights.

Later

Pitspitr · February 15, 2017, 07:55:50 PM

Well Mike if I'm reading your user name correctly I'd be 1962JMD so my eyes ain't 18 no more either but I can still see the 300yd target...I can't always hit it but I can see it

pony express · February 15, 2017, 08:52:36 PM

I'm a 1958LAR, can see the 300 yard target just fine. But-sights? what sights?

1961MJS · February 15, 2017, 09:50:35 PM

Quote from: Pitspitr on February 15, 2017, 07:55:50 PM
Well Mike if I'm reading your user name correctly I'd be 1962JMD so my eyes ain't 18 no more either but I can still see the 300yd target...I can't always hit it but I can see it

Hi

I took the day off and went to check out magnifying safety glasses (more or less) at Jantz Supply (knives). I did drop by the range and check how the sights looked again. Not too bad, it was WINDY when I was out sighting in the gun last weekend. At 75 yards, I had trouble keeping focused on the sights. I have what my eye doctor (who took over for me as Pistol Coach when I moved) calls "Hobby Glasses" so I can focus on the front sight of a 1911. I have a great sight picture, but the target is supposed to be blurry.

I did try pinching the sight. I'm going to order a couple of the slides, they're not all that well made. I was sure I was going to break it getting it tighter. Its not tight at the top and bottom of the slide, but loose as heck in the middle. The Smith Enterprises rear sight looks good, but then no one has them in stock either. Compared to the original sight it also goes on backwards... The Smith sight has a set screw which would be great.

I think that if I can get it tight, and repeatable Ill be o.k. If I can't get a Vernier for working up a load, I think I'll use a Marble Improved then take it back off after I get a load.

Thanks for putting up with all of the questions.

Later

1961MJS · February 27, 2017, 05:32:25 PM

Hi

I got the Vernier on the gun, and sighted it in at 75 yards, I'll work in 100 when I go work on the groups. I also had Steve put a small screw on the original ladder sight's slide. It seems to work well. I did better with the glasses this time, not sure what the different was. My plan is to take the Vernier off to compete with, at some point I hope to get another Sharps or 1885 Winchester to go under it.

From reading McChristain's book, I think I can use my Fair Weather Christian .45 caliber civil war belt and put both .45 LC and .45-70 in it. The .45-70 seems to fit o.k. (at home anyway). Would it be a good idea to purchase a Civil War Cavalry Carbine cartridge box and / or an officer's pistol cartridge box in addition?

Thanks

Pitspitr · February 28, 2017, 04:46:17 AM

How many rounds will your belt hold? I sometimes wear 2.

I don't think I've ever run out of rounds in a stage but I understand that it really sucks, right Ned & Sam?

Niederlander · February 28, 2017, 08:57:17 AM

It does indeed! Pays to slow down just a bit and actually HIT targets!

1961MJS · February 28, 2017, 03:11:55 PM

Quote from: Pitspitr on February 28, 2017, 04:46:17 AM
How many rounds will your belt hold? I sometimes wear 2.

I don't think I've ever run out of rounds in a stage but I understand that it really sucks, right Ned & Sam?

Well, actually I have a Fair Weather Christian, AND a Prairie belt from Dave Carrico. so I could wear roughly 30 rounds of .45-70 and 24 or more of .45 LC on the belts and fill the pocket of the Civil War officer sack coat and a vest if I have to. I'm still sort of considering the Civil war Cavalry belt box just in case. I compete at Bullseye (badly, but I do try), the rest of this is just for grins.

Until this came up my nefarious plan was to use the FWC for GAF and the Prairie belt for Expansion Era. Now I may just bring it all. That all may not work if it's muddy...

Later

pony express · February 28, 2017, 07:16:10 PM

MJS, I started an expansion era stage once with a Win '94 30-30, with 50 rounds and I used-50 rounds. Forgot to change to my special "shooting prescription" glasses and darned if the sights just didn't totally disappear! I think I had to sneak up on a couple of rifle targets with my 1911 to finish.

Pitspitr · March 01, 2017, 04:38:50 AM

Quote from: 1961MJS on February 28, 2017, 03:11:55 PM
Well, actually I have a Fair Weather Christian, AND a Prairie belt from Dave Carrico. so I could wear roughly 30 rounds of .45-70 and 24 or more of .45 LC on the belts and fill the pocket of the Civil War officer sack coat and a vest if I have to. I'm still sort of considering the Civil war Cavalry belt box just in case. I compete at Bullseye (badly, but I do try), the rest of this is just for grins.

Until this came up my nefarious plan was to use the FWC for GAF and the Prairie belt for Expansion Era. Now I may just bring it all. That all may not work if it's muddy...

Later

That sounds about like what I do. If you DON'T find some grins up her I'll be seriously disappointed.

If it's muddy... We'll all have a really interesting weekend!