What makes a bad stage?

[Stump Water]

I write stages.  Sometimes I get a little bit too "creative" (hey... it looks good on paper) and have to be reeled back in.

What is too much?  Bad shot sequence, bad gun sequence or just too gimmicky?

[hellgate]

Here's how I do it: If there's lots of action (gimmicks) then make the shooting sequence simple (sweeps, dump targets, triple taps, alternate on two targets). If there are few gimmicks then the sequence can be more complex. A lot of the criticism depends on who's doing the complaining. The "IPSC with cowboy hats" types want to have the time on the stage to be entirely a factor of their shooting/transition/movement abilities and do not want to interrupt the flow with shenanigans. Those with less concern about fast times want to be entertained by doing something besides plinking steel which is boring to them. Either way, you're gonna tick someone off so just figure on it. The real test of whether it was a good stage or not is the number of middling shooters that get procedural penalties. No matter how clever or much fun a stage happens to be, if a lot of folks get "Ps" it won't be appreciated. I like "shenanigan shoots" where we are throwing things, breaking out of jail, stabbing the deputy, or scalping the Indian ON THE CLOCK, IN A LOGICAL SEQUENCE. When I started in this sport 13 years ago, it was more shenanigans where speed was nice but not paramount. We shot out of stagecoaches, from buckboard wagons, lying down, etc. Now ther's a lot of "stand & deliver" fast stages that get boring. I like whacking the jailer with a bucket (or whisky bottle) stealing his gun from his holster & breaking outa jail. You know, Saturday matinee kinda stuff.

[Camille Eonich]

A bad stage is any that I don't shoot good.   

Seriuosly though I enjoy most all stages.  I like a challenge but there are two things that stand out in my mind that make some stages not as good as others.  The first is a target sequence that makes no sense.  By that I mean a target sequence that appears to have been just put together randomnly, there is no pattern to them.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about then ask and I'll try to explain.


The second thing that stands out in my mind is something that occupies your hands when you need them to shoot.  I had to do that one time and it was awkward to the point of being unsafe.  The stage that comes to mind is one where you had to hold a basket of flowers to start the stage.  Then you had to shoot the entire stage without putting the basket down and if you spilled any of the flowers you got a P.  If faced with something like that again I would probably refuse to shoot it.

[Wymore Wrangler]

A bad stage has design flaws, I shot at a club this summer that had a rope across the entire range to signify the firing line, some one tied the shotgun knock down reset ropes with loops that over hung the shotgun rack, one of those loops caught my shotgun hammers and pulled it out of my hands while I was picking up, I got a 10 second safety penalty, I could have argue bad stage design, but I wasn't going to win anything anyway.  So along with P traps, make sure that you have secure places to restage long guns after your through with them...

[Doc Shapiro]

Stages with a lot of transitions.  Pistol, SG, pistol, SG, rifle, SG.  I usually hear grumbling when this happens.  The other things that I hear grumbling about are complicated target orders, and small/far targets.

Doc

[Lars]

Complicated sequences of any kind are bad, including for target orders and multiple transitions. Most any kind of P-trap, is bad -- the ones I hate most are those that require things like: fire one shot, leave hammer down, move to new location, fire one shot, leave hammer down, move to new location, fire one shot, and on and on.

The kinds of stages where one has to carry some prop in hands while shooting can be very bad. Much better is provisiion for sitting it down, shooting, picking it up, moving to next shooting position.

Stages with very badly designed props that shooter must "mount" and/or dismount. One recently had a peice of leather tightly stretched across front of stirrup, preventing mone than the front 1,5 inches of boot from getting into the stirrup -- really bad!!

Stages shot from inside an enclosure that greatly amplifies the sound. This makes shooting BP loads really painful to the ears of shooter and likely RO as well.

Sitting shotgun targets (steel plates) placed so close that every shot peppers the bystanders with fine peices of lead. Ditto for any splatter from steel targets. Stages so close together that backsplatter and activities on one stage interfer with shooters on adjacent stage(s).

Really boring, easy stages are especially bad!!!!!!!!!

Lars

[Arcey]

The older I get the less I like structure.

When I write 'em here lately it's been:

'There's a rest there, a scabbard here, put your rifle and shotgun in/on one or the other.  Start here.  You have three pistol targets, shoot each one at least three times.  There's three rifle targets 'n there's ten rounds in the rifle, shoot each target at least three times.  Knock over the shotgun targets.  "Shoot" means to shoot at with the intention of hitting.'

Don't like ending a stage fifteen or twenty yards from where I started.

Still like puttin' chance in stages.  A l'il gamblin' involved.  Know damned well others don't so I don't mess with it anymore.  Still like pairin' up shooters 'n enterin' the time for the stage for both but I don't do that anymore either.

[Micheal Fortune]

Stump Water, Please don't make me crawl around on the ground.........No "Run and shoot from under the fence"  That was all fun when I was 10 or 11 but not no more.

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

Good topic, Stumpy! I've been thinking a lot about that of late and just yesterday submitted a piece I wrote about ten days ago to the Chronicle about stage writing. We'll see if it gets printed!

What makes a bad individual stage for me? I'd say mixing up sweeps within a stage, such as a triple tap sweep for the rifles, then a Nevada sweep for the revolvers, then S3, S2, S4, S1 for the shotguns. I can do it, and have shot more complicated stages, but I don't like them very much. I really like a flow or pattern to the shooting sequences, something my mind can latch onto to remember.

I've had one P so far. The shooter shot out of windows and for each sequence moved to the next window to the left. Window 1, shoot rifle, starting from the left. Window 2, shoot first revolver from the left. Window 3, shoot second revolver, from the right. Window 4, shoot the shotgun from the left. Sure enough, when I got to window 3, I drew my revolver and shot the first target on the left. I started cussing and the RO asked me what was wrong. I said I just got my first P. (Of course, while we are standing there and talking, I'm not shooting and the clock is ticking away). He hadn't noticed. So, what'd I do? Instead of just continuing the sweep as I started, since I already got the P, I corrected myself and shot the rest of it as I was supposed to!

The funny thing was the shooter who followed me shot it the exact same way I did, including correcting himself! He just didn't stand there and talk about it.  After that, all the shooters at window 3 were reminded to shoot from the right and there were no more Ps.

I don't mind a "stand and deliver", targets really close, simple sequences, minimal to no movement, stage by itself, but a whole matchful of those? Eh. A match like that does nothing for me.  I prefer a blend of movement (yes, me, the one who doesn't run!), creativity, props, goofy lines, and stand and deliver. I really like the shenanigans, as Hellgate put it. That's fun for me.

Then again, I consider Arcey and Sam Hades to be my creative mentors for writing stages, so I reckon I am a little demented.



AnnieLee

[Old Top]

Annie,

You are no more demented then the rest of us.

Old Top

[Silver_Rings]

Boring things like draw pistol nevada sweep, rifle nevada sweep, shotgun shoot 4. 

SR

[Camille Eonich]

Sr I get sick of Nevada sweeps too. 

[Irish Red O'Toole]

Basicially the "slow the fast guys down" mentality.  The fast guys are STILL going to be the fast guys, no matter what.  But, the Average Joe shooter will have significantly longer stages times on STFGD stages.  This makes them discouraged and gives the match a bad rap.  Big and close seems to attract shooters (if you doubt me, check out anyone that's been to Bordertown).  "P" traps, overly complex shooting sequences, and prop manipulation on the clock are sure to leave a bad taste in the mouths of most folks.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The stages I like allow for a little creative planning on how I shoot them. I also like stages that are quick. For me, the challenge is in how I use my equipment, transitions included. Most people are there to shoot. Write them with that in mind.

The ones I find less enjoyable have convoluted sequences or numerous transitions. Some people try to make stages interesting by chopping them up into a head game, but I don't appreciate them. We had a match a while back that had 5 shotgun transitions (pick up the shotgun, shoot 2, set it down, pick it something else and shoot it, go for the shotgun again for 2 more, etc) and 3 mandatory things to say at different points during the course of one stage. All the rest of the stages had mandatory statements that had to be said on the clock with more multiple shotgun transitions. At a more recent match there were several stages that required the shooter to dumb things on the clock (one was embarrassingly childish) that had nothing to do with shooting but ate up time. All that chaff just slows everyone down and trips up the new shooters. If I had encountered a match like that on my first visit, I wouldn't be attending any CAS events today. A good stage can be interesting without complexity.

OK, have fun. Good stages are appreciated by everyone.

[Chantilly]

#1 would rather not - stages that require the shooter to shoot duelist or the dreaded "off-hand" duelist.     Not many shooters appreciate holding something in one hand while shooting - yep, that includes me - I join the ranks of those that already mentioned that one.  I agree that multiple transitions is a P (or perhaps frustration and accident) waiting to happen.  I rather subscribe to the idea that if too many shooters get a P, then the Posse isn't doing their job well. 

Which bring me to the best stages - when the posse works well as a "team", no matter how the stages are written, then nearly all shooters will have fun.  If you pay attention, you learn who needs a little reminder and who doesn't.  Also...I like starting the stage with a line OFF the clock indicating when the shooter is ready to begin the stage - sort of a focusing moment - but then, I like to talk. 

When writing stages, I always try to remember that the target audience is the mid range and new shooters.  If the mid range and new shooters have fun, then usually everyone has fun.  Use of creative props to "dress up" the stage but not get in the way are a good way of putting variety into monthly shoots without getting creative with the stage design.

Chantilly (who is in charge of the annual Wild West meets Halloween shoot for the local club)

PS.....stages that are not "timed" well causing a back up of shooters just waiting...and waiting...and I don't mean a short wait.  Longest back up experienced was 2 hours....goodness gracious. Well, I just jumped right in and helped the posse shooting (and in this case, there were THREE posses waiting) with spotting or whatever.  By the time we were able to shoot the stage, I was plum worn out!  I did get to talk alot though...I did mention that I like to talk...

[Texas Tall]

As Doc said small far away targets and complicated sequences that just seem to be designed to get heaps of misses and a bunch of "P's"on the score sheets aint fun.
Pistol,shotgun,pistol shotgun, rifle shotgun etc is okay especialy in walk thru's.
Also little swinging shotgun targets that the breeze of the shot going past moves 'em I think are
useless,knock down SG targets are the way to go.
But it's all fun, aint it.
Regards................Texas Tall.
GSC 002

[Lars]

One of the things mentioned several times as "bad" are small and/or far away targets. Some of us really like them because we really are not much enamored of shooting fast at big targets. Some of us have handicaps that slow us down -- sometimes that is a significant, even large, fraction of the older shooters.

One way of including such targets, or any other type of target that requires greater than average ability to shoot accurately, is to make them bonus targets. A common type of bonus target will give a 5-10 second bonus if hit but no penalty if missed (other than the time taken to shoot the target).

IF you really want to give the carefull (accurate) shooter a bit of an advantage vis a vis the "spray and pray" shooter, bonus targets can do that. Still, those shooters that are, or can be, both fast and accurate will do even better.

Lars

[Wireman]

Square wheels really stink up my stage 

[Wireman]

When it's parents don't hug it enough?

[Irish Red O'Toole]

Lars,
Throwing bonus targets out there that reward the shooter with time off there final stage time are not a way to "level the playing field".  What these "bonus" targets do is become must-hit targets after the first person hits one.  Then everyone has to hit the bonus to stay even.  Unless you believe that the super fast guys won't go after the bonus.  You are mistaken if you do.  I used to think that way myself.  Then I actually started listening to guys like Black Jack Traven on the subject and he made a lot of sense.  The fast guys (or "spray and prayers" as you call them) you would like to even up with will take that bonus shot 10 out of 10 times.  They have to because there's always somebody right up even with them and if they miss that shot, the other won't.  Heck of a thing to put an EOT or Winter Range win on a bonus target, isn't it?

You like small and far targets.  That's great.  There are clubs out there that can probably cater to your desires.  I would wager my aging house cat though that the majority of shooters in Cowboy Action Shooting like close and big targets.  So, what's a match directo to do?  He (or she...don't want to be accused of being sexist)  has to put on a match that appeals to the greatest number of shooters.  Does the MD sacrifice the majority for the minority?  What would YOU do?