The 7th from the Yellowstone to LBH

[James Hunt]

I  don't do the GAF stuff but thought you guy's might be interested in this: The River Raisin Battlefield National Park had a military timeline this past weekend. Given that it is in Monroe (the home of Custer) I decided to do an early Indian wars persona, as a trooper might have appeared after leaving the Yellowstone and on the way to the LBH and history.

The companies were brought together at Ft. Lincoln leaving in Mid May and were clothed, accoutered, and horses tacked in all manner of gear ranging from CW to the latest 74 specification. Consequently a fun period to portray. I portrayed a trooper of French's company M under Reno's command as they went into battle.

I wore an issue gray wool flannel shirt, a private purchase hat, CW era dismonunted trousers lined with canvas, and a 74 blouse. My boots were the CW issue pegged artillery boot with the 59 spurs.

I carried the issue 73 SAA and springfield carbine. The pistol was carried in the unusual 72 holster with the cleaning rod and 360 degree swivel, 12 rds pistol in a modified issue CW cap box, and rifle rds in both a Dyer cartridge box and Hazen loops (50 rds per Godfrey). The belt with saber hangers was of 74 specification to include belt plate.

The horse was tacked correctly with CW era halter and bridle, for benefit of the horse that day I used a snaffle (incorrect although similar to a watering bit). The saddle followed the specifications of a 72. I used stirrup hoods although it is arguable as to whether Custer specified his companies not use them (Godfrey's comments). I was issued the 59 saddle bags, so needed to carry my meat can (the hated 72 type) in a 72 haversack which I hung from the offside of the horse. My saddle bags held two shoes, nails, and 50 rds of ammo. My early 72 type canteen hung from the near side of the cantel. My CW issue US blanket was wrapped in a type III shelter half and as described for June 25th my blouse was attached above it on the cantel do to the heat of the day. Like most troopers I left my great coat at the mouth of the Powder River, so my pommel held my forage sack with 15 pds of grain, my ground cloth, and my picket pin with 30 ft lariat. on the off side hung a CW era nosebag that carried my 68 specified sidelines, brush and curry comb. All in all close to 70 pounds of stuff. Skelar sites a reference where troopers were pitching stuff off of their saddle as they charged down Reno Creek in order to be in better fighting trim.

Hope you like the photo's - it is always a hoot sharing history with the public.

[Delmonico]

- it is always a hoot sharing history with the public.

Something often lacking among people, I've seen people sit around and complain people don't understand history but won't get off their duff and do anything about it, I set up a small set-up Friday in Mustang Greg's hometown at their living history days and baked a small biscuit for each of around 300 4th graders.   

Nice set up.

[James Hunt]

Couple more with my friend Herr Schultz who is portraying an infantryman of the same era and wearing that horrible brace system - thankfully the cavalry quickly dispensed with it. Shows the near side horse accouterments.



Here examining the 72 holster and that home brewed Hoffman swivel

[Trailrider]

Better get your company saddler to rivet the body of the holster to the belt loop before the whole shebang comes loose and you lose the pistol and holster when riding. With the company commander responsible monetarily for such loses, I'd be surprised if he didn't order all of his troops' holsters to be so modified!  

Terrific impression! Why not join the GAF. Nothing really required, but you sure could give a lot of pointers to the troops! 

[Pitspitr]

  OH My Gosh!!!
you're actually taking your M-1872 Meat Can out and playing with it??Do you know what it's worth?  What if you dent it?

[James Hunt]

Trailrider:
The comment from McChristian is that apparently revolver's were lost due to the 360 degree swivel. What were they thinking because I believe that the hoffman swivel with the stop was used on a bayonet frog prior to this or at the same time, it was incorporated into the 74 specification (Not sure how many of those made it to the LBH although the Hazen loops and Dyer pouch clearly did.)

From an experimental archaeology standpoint: The first time I mounted a horse with this holster was at this event. You have to swing your leg a bit higher than normal to clear the stuff on the cantel, as I did so and swung into the saddle I looked over at my holster and sure enough it had rotated 180 degrees and the top of the holster and revolver were pointed to the ground. Now this holster was in near new condition, the finial closure was tight but I am thinking that with some wear that pistol is on the ground. That is with a controlled mount. Imagine what would happen if you are trying to mount a terrified animal as Reno fly's past you with the information that if you want to save yourself follow him?

You would think that back in Philadelphia someone would have taken that prototype, handed it off to a private and watched him try an mount a rank horse. Apparently not and 1300 were made.

[James Hunt]

OH My Gosh!!!
you're actually taking your M-1872 Meat Can out and playing with it??Do you know what it's worth?  What if you dent it?

Ha, ha  -

I know the panic that must be going thru your heart at the moment, some fool destroying history. Actually MasterTinner just cranked out about 100 of these things on a special order. It is an outstanding repro - exact to the finest detail. Not sure if he has any left. He can be contacted on fb at www.facebook.com/tin.smith.9?fref=ts

[Pitspitr]

Ha, ha  -

I know the panic that must be going thru your heart at the moment, some fool destroying history. Actually MasterTinner just cranked out about 100 of these things on a special order. It is an outstanding repro - exact to the finest detail. Not sure if he has any left. He can be contacted on fb at www.facebook.com/tin.smith.9?fref=ts

Whew! (Pitspitr sighs in relief)
I've only seen one original in person. the last one I saw sell brought $1200.

[Charles Isaac]

    Thank you Sir for putting forth the effort to have such a wonderful display! There are plenty of people that see this stuff and remember it for the rest of their lives!

Whew! (Pitspitr sighs in relief)
I've only seen one original in person. the last one I saw sell brought $1200.

Here's a deal on one for $650, just because I like you so much!

http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/08_mess_gear/08_item_001.htm

 

I set up a small set-up Friday in Mustang Greg's hometown at their living history days and baked a small biscuit for each of around 300 4th graders.   

And thank you too Del for that hard work-I do love your bisquits-although I have tried to go light on those type things seeing they like to attack my midsection!!!


But 300 4th graders in a town? The population of my whole town is 452! I guess I really need to get out more.

[Delmonico]

   
But 300 4th graders in a town? The population of my whole town is 452! I guess I really need to get out more.

There are 269 that live in Table Rock Nebraska, they bussed them in, some came almost 90 miles, half of downtown in store front museums, may be what saves the town.

[Charles Isaac]

    That's a number more like I would figure. Seeing your part of the world gave me the feeling it was very sparsely populated-and I do like it that way!

[Niederlander]

Charles, that part of Nebraska is pretty populated compared to where we are.  (I grew up about fifteen miles from Table Rock.)

[Good Troy]

Hope you like the photo's -

Thanks for sharing these photos!  I have to say that your set-up is finer than frog hair split three ways!

[Trailrider]

Trailrider:
The comment from McChristian is that apparently revolver's were lost due to the 360 degree swivel. What were they thinking because I believe that the hoffman swivel with the stop was used on a bayonet frog prior to this or at the same time, it was incorporated into the 74 specification (Not sure how many of those made it to the LBH although the Hazen loops and Dyer pouch clearly did.)
From an experimental archaeology standpoint: The first time I mounted a horse with this holster was at this event. You have to swing your leg a bit higher than normal to clear the stuff on the cantel, as I did so and swung into the saddle I looked over at my holster and sure enough it had rotated 180 degrees and the top of the holster and revolver were pointed to the ground. Now this holster was in near new condition, the finial closure was tight but I am thinking that with some wear that pistol is on the ground. That is with a controlled mount. Imagine what would happen if you are trying to mount a terrified animal as Reno fly's past you with the information that if you want to save yourself follow him?
You would think that back in Philadelphia someone would have taken that prototype, handed it off to a private and watched him try an mount a rank horse. Apparently not and 1300 were made.

Even when the swivel was modified to limit the amount of swing, the prongs holding the swivel to the belt loop tended to pull loose, so the holster, gun and swivel fell off! I can't get at my other references beside Doug's, but IIRC either Lt. John Bourke, Crook's aide or possibly John Finnerty, the "Fightin' Irish Pencil Pusher" mentioned things like this. Eventually, orders came down for company saddlers to rivet the holster to the belt loop. The later holsters eliminated the swivel altogether. Just shows what happens when the REMF's design something without thinking it through or doing adequate testing.

But I still really appreciate your efforts at telling the true story of the Indian Wars troopers! Thanks, again! 

[Pitspitr]

He can be contacted on fb at www.facebook.com/tin.smith.9?fref=ts

I don't FB. Is there any other way to contact him?

[Pitspitr]

Here's a deal on one for $650, just because I like you so much!

http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com/08_mess_gear/08_item_001.htm

Still out of my price range, especially if there are repro's available.

[Good Troy]

I digress, but I do it so well, I'll probably not stop....
In my most recent read, "The Killing of Crazy Horse", Lt. Bourke's diary and journal entries were a major source of information.  I certainly appreciate the effort that he and others made to document life before this digital, high-tech world we know today!  

[James Hunt]

Pitspitr: I belong to a closed group on fb called centennial boys (1876). We all got together and placed an order for a bunch of these as someone had an original to pattern off of. We ordered them thru Master Tinner by messaging him on fb. However, I think this is the guy who runs Hot Dip Tin at: www.hotdiptin.com You can give that guy a try. My memory last spring was that  this was a one time run, but with interest he may make more. If you do an early IW impression this and the 72 haversack is the ticket!

This guy worked as the tinsmith at Colonial Williamsburg I believe. It is great quality.

Showing off my meatcan and haversack.

[Blair]

James,

I believe I know who you are talking about.

While, if my memory serves me correctly, he did not work for Colonial Williamsburg, in a literal cense, He did produce a lot of tin wear for them.
The quality of his hot dipped tin sheet iron products is extremely high.
I know this from the five years I worked for CW.

James, PS: one last question, is your horse a Morgan?
My best,
Blair

[River City John]

James, PS: one last question, is your horse a Morgan?
My best,
Blair

WOW! Blair, you're good if you can tell the name of James' horse from just a photo . . .    



RCJ