.44 Colt Richards Conversion?

Newheel · September 11, 2015, 04:22:18 PM

Howdy
I am brand spankin' new to CAS. I am the proud new owner of a Colt 1873 open top 22, Colt 1873 SAA in .45 with 7 1/2" barrel, 1873 Winchester 32-20 and Winchester 1894 30/30. All are pre 1898 versions. I was looking at a Colt 1860 Richards conversion in .44. I do not reload. Is ammunition available for this? Not sure if I were to ever fire it. Of course I would take it to a gunsmith after I receive it. Just curious before I buy it.
Thanks

Jake C · September 11, 2015, 04:28:19 PM

If you get one in .44 Special, ammo will be more commonly available. I know that there are some companies that are making ammo for .44 Russian or .44 Colt, but you'll have to pay a hefty bit, I believe. I'd recommend getting a basic loading setup. Lots of fun, when you get used to it, and it'll save you lots of money after the start up cost.

Major 2 · September 11, 2015, 04:45:38 PM

It appears he speaking of an original Richards

By all means have it checked

Shooting it

It depends . CF or Rim Fire ? if Rim Fire ? then no, unless you find some real collectible 44 Henry ..read pricey..very pricey

CF ? there is 44 Colt and be sure it's Black Powder.... Doubt 44 Russian rim size will allow it to seat in the cyl.

Certainly, don't use 44 Special .... and avoid Smokeless powder

Jake C · September 11, 2015, 05:22:15 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on September 11, 2015, 04:45:38 PM
It appears he speaking of an original Richards

By all means have it checked

Shooting it It depends . CF or Rim Fire ? if Rim Fire ? then no, unless you find some real collectible 44 Henry ..read pricey..very pricey

CF ? there is 44 Colt and be sure it's Black Powder.... Doubt 44 Russian rim size will allow it to seat in the cyl.

Certainly, don't use 44 Special .... and avoid Smokeless powder

Oops, my bad.

Newheel · September 11, 2015, 05:36:22 PM

Thanks for the swift responses. It is an original Colt 1860 Richard's conversion in cal 44 Colt CF. Mfd 1861
They want 1095.00 for it.

Drydock · September 11, 2015, 05:59:49 PM

That would be a centerfire, using a Heel type bullet. For an original, it would be a black powder only, hand loading proposition. but even then, I'm not sure I'd shoot it. CAS can be pretty hard on weapons, thus most of us gravitate toward reproductions. If you brought that to a match, or any of the others, you'd get a lot of oohs and aahhs.

The SAA and Win 73 are good to go for what we do, plenty of spare parts, though both in my opinion would be BP only as well. But an Original Richards might be too rare and too fragile for competition. But you have my envy for certain!

Newheel · September 11, 2015, 07:00:55 PM

Thanks Drydock. Not sure if I'd fire it more than a couple times, just to see what it was like.
I guess I'll have to look into reloading.

Mike · September 11, 2015, 10:02:22 PM

Origanal colt 44 is not for the beginner, there is some good info here on the forum.
get a repro if you want to shoot a Richards and in 44 not 45.

Newheel · September 12, 2015, 09:55:25 AM

Thanks for the info all. I reckon I might wanna just get a Colt 32-20 to match my 73". Seems like that would be the easier thing to do, though 44-40 seems tolerable as well.

Major 2 · September 12, 2015, 10:27:36 AM

A Colt Richards circa 1861 would be a relative rare bird , $1095 something of BARGAIN $:-\$ in about any condition...

Shoot it ? well, I'd be mighty shy ..own it Hell yes .... tempted you bet... but mighty shy.

A Colt in 32/20 absolutely, be careful though, there is 32/20 for pistol and there 32/20 Rifle only

I have a Marlin in 32/20, sweet round & and I have a S&W Hand Ejector do not shoot Rifle 32/20 in the revolvers

Mike · September 13, 2015, 01:36:52 AM

44 WCF 44-40 is the best.

Coffinmaker · September 13, 2015, 12:15:50 PM

Just a cautionary note. An original Richards Conversion, built on an 1860, will have a 'CAST IRON' cylinder. I would be hesitant to shoot it with other than a somewhat reduced powder charge and perhaps a light bullet. Considering a 44 Colt cartridge of that era, would be loaded with a Heal Based Bullet (already mentioned), said bullet would also be .451 +/- in diameter. A modern 44 Colt round will be loaded with a .429/430 bullet, which will just rattle around down the barrel. The blow-by will also be somewhat ...... uncomfortable.

For the stated price and just to own an original Type 1 Richards, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. I would NOT shoot it. Well, not with
manufactured cartridges. Maybe with handloads. Special light bullet handloads. I know a whole gob of shooters who would "mob" me just for the opportunity to fondle an original.

Coffinmaker

Blair · September 13, 2015, 01:31:13 PM

Just as a note along this line of thought, The Colt 1860's and their cartridge conversions do not use "CAST IRON" to make the cyilinder's.
In the period context, Cast iron uses 2% + carbon, sometimes as high as 6%. to reduce the melting of the metal for "CASTING" the shape of the metal into a hollow cavity or mould. This high carbon content make the metal too brittle
High Carbon Steel, often used in making machine tools uses 1% or less.
Springs steel uses .5 % or less.
Keep in mind this is all within the period metallurgical context, and is the reason why the 1860's could be made smaller and much more refined in their shape than the earlier .44 cal. Colt revolvers.
My best,
Blair

Newheel · September 14, 2015, 12:30:19 PM

Great advice all, I just bought it this morning! Even if I don't shoot it would look nice holstered alongside my 1873 .45 with 7 1/2 " barrel. The 1/2" difference would be hardly noticeable. I did find the brass at Starline though, and talked to Bernold at Gad, so,,, just in case....
Yeehaw!!