New steel-framed Uberti Henry...good and bad

[Fox Creek Kid]

I don't have it handy right now, but the Wiley Sword book stated that only a few of the earliest iron frame ones were case colored I thought.    As well, some historians think that Colt made the iron frame ones for New Haven Arms while they tooled up.

[Peter M. Eick]

Its a long story, but I can say that I have handled an Iron Framed Henry that had remnant case hardening on the frame.  It is the reason I bought my Uberti as a case hardened one and the all blued (which Cimarron did offer back then) just did not look right since I handled a real one. 

I will comment to the OP that my Cimarron Uberti case hardened also had to be drifted to the left to get it on target at 100 yrds.  Mine is over about half the distance of yours at 100.  Yes, I agree it is quite irritating but I have gotten over it.  I suspect that something in the making of the barrel creates a slight leftward bend in the barrel.  Residual stress from machining?

I figured that the rear sight is so poor, (poorly machined that is) that I would replace it some day with a buckhorn one that another poster here recommended to me.  I bought the sight and it sits in a box just waiting till i get fed up enough to do something about it.

[treebeard]

My repro Spencer in 44-40 also  has required a significant drift of the rear sight to the left.  So it may be that the
Problem is caused by how the barrels are machined. I suspect that the barrels are produced in the same factory.

[Mike]

My guess is the barrels and frames may not be true. In other words when they bored the frames for the barrel channel it is not square so when the bareel is fitted it is slightly off centre. My 58 Remington convertion frame was not squaree across it face were the barrel touches and this put the barrel and front sight out buy six inches at twenty five meters.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

When I bought my 'Iron Framed' Henry a bunch of years ago I was not too crazy about the idea of it being case hardened, because I too thought that the Iron Frames would have been blued. I even considered getting it blued. I bought this configuration because I am not crazy about yellow guns. This one was chambered for 44-40, which is the caliber I wanted, and it was on sale at Dixie Gunworks for about $200 less than retail.


The colors were really spectacular when the gun was new, but they have faded a bit over time.

Then I learned that some of the Iron Framed Henry rifles were indeed case hardened, so I decided to leave the colors alone.






Les Quick has a couple of photos of Case Hardened Iron Framed Henry rifles in his book, The Story of Benjamin Tyler Henry and His Famed Repeating Rifle. According to Quick, there are only three known existing examples of Case Hardened Iron Framed Henry rifles. There may be more out there, but Quick did a very extensive survey for his book, and only came up with three. Of course, the colors of the Case Hardening are almost completely faded away on these rifles, the colors of true Case Hardening are fragile and will disappear over time, particularly if exposed to harsh chemicals or strong sunlight. The colors are most evident on portions of the frame that would see the least wear. Quick also mentions that hammer, trigger, and lever were Case Hardened on all Henry rifles, Iron Framed or brass.

Wiley Sword postulates in his book The Historic Henry Rifle, that because the production equipment was not ready to begin making parts until 1862, frames may have been contracted out to other companies. Colt is mentioned as a possible source of supply, but there is no hard evidence that Colt did supply iron frames. There is documentation that finger levers were produced by the Arcade Malleable Iron Company. And nobody knows exactly how many Iron Framed rifles were produced. Estimates go as high as 400.

While my rifle was still new I replaced the stock rear sight with this one from Track of The Wolf. As long as the sight is centered on the top barrel flat, the rifle shoots where it is aimed. I will note that last year at a match I missed a bunch of targets and discovered at the end of a match that the sight had slipped. This is because the sight does not fit perfectly in the dovetail and I have shimmed it up from the bottom. Need to replace the shim with one slightly thicker. Until that time I periodically check to make sure the sight has not moved.

[Driftwood Johnson]

In other words when they bored the frames for the barrel channel it is not square so when the barrel is fitted it is slightly off centre.

Uberti Henry rifle barrels are made the exact same way the originals were. The magazine starts out as two vertical 'fins' underneath the barrel. Then the fins are bent over on a mandrel to form the tubular shape of the barrel.

[Fox Creek Kid]

My guess is the barrels and frames may not be true. In other words when they bored the frames for the barrel channel it is not square so when the bareel is fitted it is slightly off centre. My 58 Remington convertion frame was not squaree across it face were the barrel touches and this put the barrel and front sight out buy six inches at twenty five meters.

Yes, usually this is caused by a poorly crowned barrel. The correct way to fix it is to recrown it in a lathe. That is not recommended here however. The other alternative is finding a gunsmith who has one of these:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-blanks-tools/barrel-chamfering-tool-kits/precision-reamers-muzzle-crown-refacing-kit-prod7718.aspx

[Mike]

I find the coulour of the frames on the Uberti guns is just not nice to my eye. I have two 73 with the Case colour frames and a Carbine and a 76 in Blue which I much prefer although not perfect.
I have not heard back yet if I can have a blued frame.

I cant wait to get my steel frame, have the brass one already.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/59/lid/3100

Blued frame.

[OD#3]

I wondered about the possibility of a slight bend in the barrel as well.  When I had it all apart, I stared and stared through the barrel, looking through the empty firing pin extension hole.  I'm not a barrel straightener, but I just couldn't see anything about the bore that would suggest a bend. 

A straight barrel that was installed crooked (as has also been suggested) would have no effect as long as front and rear sights were on the barrel.  On most revolvers, that would make a big difference, as the front sight on the barrel would now be misaligned with the rear sight on the frame.  As to the possibility of a barrel crown, that would play havoc with accuracy as well; I don't think it would drift the bullets off to the right or left but all in the same place. 

I will report back whenever I have another range day.  With the nose cap being loose before, the act of swinging open the magazine spring housing would have pushed the nose cap as far to the left as it would go--the front sight would have been canted to the left, causing rounds to strike to the right.  Whether or not the looseness was severe enough to cause this much sight misalignment is doubtful, but I'm leaving the sight where it is, and I'm still hoping that my next range trip will send bullets markedly to the left this time.

[OD#3]

Well, I promised a range report, so here goes...  The rifle still shoots to the right, and the rear sight had to remain drifted very far to the left to center the shots.  I don't know if I'll leave it like that or investigate barrel straightening.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Did you examine the crown for dings or unevenness? 

[OD#3]

Sorry for the late reply.  I can't find a thing wrong with the muzzle crown, though I still believe that any muzzle crown damage or unevenness would result in inaccuracy--not windage issues.  Nevertheless, here are a couple of pics.  Hard to get a very good one with the lighting, but it looks good to me.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Looks good. There is one other, and often VERY overlooked factor:  barrel harmonics. I should have thought of it sooner as it has happened to me when shooting a Henry off the bench. That is IMO whenever I let the magazine touch anything it caused flyers. Offhand, the groups were a ragged hole at 15 yds. Try shooting off the bench but only resting the bottom of the receiver on the bench. As well, what is the exact load you are shooting?

[Coffinmaker]

Some years ago, a fella brought his Brandy Damd New "Iron Frame" Henry into my shop.  Still in the box and oily plastic wrap.  Wanted it
"Cleaned Up" before he even started to play with it.  I gave it a complete de-burr and a full polish internally as well as re-grinding all the
springs.  When it was finished, that Henry was the smoothest and fastest rifle I have ever worked on.  The action could be run full speed with just a little finger.  I wanted it so bad I could taste it.  Guy wouldn't give it up.  I still want that rifle.

Incepting with parts of this discussion, that rifle would also group inside a 50 cent piece at 75 yards.  Never touched the sights from where the factory left em.  I only had one other Henry that set up like that.  It was mine and was a gorgeous "in The White" rifle.  It also shot inside a 50 cent piece at 75 yards.  Pretty easy to shoot a clover leaf with it.  My Vet lusted after it for several years, and like a dummy, I finally sold it to him.  I've regretted selling that rifle ever since.

I still want an "Iron Frame."  Just haven't had the loose change available to go out and order one.

Coffinmaker

[Major 2]

Off hand I have shot 1 1/2 " groups with my Iron frame @ 75 Yds ...it's not the norm though

If I shoot deliberate, aim & time my shots I can repeat it....  Mostly I'm fine @ 25 Yards just hitting steel as quickly as can

[OD#3]

It is.n't the accuracy that is the issue--just the windage.  I'll strip it down this week and look down the barrel again and see if I can see the rings and discern the telltale signs of a bent barrel.  Coffinmaker, I don't know what it is with these Henry rifles, but my tuning resulted in my slickest toggle-link action job too, though I wasn't doing anything I don't do to any of the others I've worked on.  I wonder if it isn't the way the firing pin extension is.  There is less of a step at the back, and it is this step which performs the final camming of the hammer that seems to give me the biggest trouble on the 1873's--no amount of polishing seems to take this little hitch out with the 1873 and 1876.  But the Henry extension is much blunter, and I think it gets its greatest hammer contact out of the way much earlier in the lever stroke.

[matt45]

So if I am understanding the situation right...  Your rifle groups fine, just too far to the right?

[OD#3]

Yes, that's it exactly.

[matt45]

Has it centered the group by drifting the rear sight?

[OD#3]

Mostly it is centered.  At close range, the small group it produces is centered very nicely.  At long range (250-300 yards), the shots are still drifting to the right about 2 feet.  I didn't attempt to drift it any further left when shooting long range, because the rear sight notch was already just about even with the left side of the top barrel flat. 

Ammunition was my own make--250 gr. PRS Big Lube over 40 grains compressed FFF Goex.  I made a new batch with the same bullet over 35 Grains of FFF Olde Eynsford, but I only had time to ring some steel at 35 yards or so the day I tested them.  I had left the sight drifted to the left in a vain hope that the loose screw I'd found on the nosecap (and subsequent rotational looseness of the cap and front sight) was to blame for the rifle shooting to the right before.  I was actually hoping that it would now shoot to the left, and I could drift the rear sight back to the center.  But it shot to point of aim, and as I was testing some other firearms that day with some friends and had only brought the Henry along as a novelty for them to shoot, we just put a few magazine tubes through it at the steel before moving on to other firearms.

Were I a competitive cowboy action shooter, the extreme rear sight windage wouldn't bother me.  At cowboy action match ranges, it would do fine, and it may even be an advantage, since I have a rather wide face, and my eye more easily falls behind a rear sight that is already drifted to the left.  But this drifting of rounds to the right is bugging me, and I'm going to get to the bottom of it.