SAA clone jams when/whist firing

[jasonfb123]

So my pop left me a SAA clone he bought used many years ago.  It had a broken pawl( the cylinder advancing thingy) and I had it repaired at a local gunsmith.  The smith did a terrific job and it runs an empty cylinder and a loaded cylinder like a champ, no issues.  The problem arises as one fires it.  The first round or two run fine.  Then the fired cases begin to really drag through the gun as they reach the 4 or 5 o'clock position.  It looks like the primers are running into the back plate thing.  It does this with factory 45 colt as well as light reloads in Starline brass with properly seated primers.  I am at a loss as to what would be causing this but after firing, the primers have drag marks on them.  At least I know why the pawl originally broke.  Any ideas on a fix?  Thanks.

The gun is an old FAP imported by Brolin Arms of Pomona, Ca. 

[Coffinmaker]

Well, in all honesty, they're are a bunch of us who could give you a swell WAG (Military acronymm = Wild A$$ guess).  All would be just that.  A Guess.  I personally would have to see the gun cycle to get specific.  But (WAG coming) my first look would be at the firing pin hole in the recoil shield to see if it's "puckered" and sporting burrs that catch the primer as it backs out of the case upon firing.

The problem is going to be at, or down stream from the firing pin hole.  the frame may also be out of square and the head space decreases at the bottom of the recoil shield. 

If your not some familiar with the function of a SA type handgun, you have another visit to a gunsmith in your future. 

Good Luck!!

Coffinmaker 

[jasonfb123]

I knew somebody would know Thank you for your reply.
How does one correct pucker?

[Abilene]

Does it have a burr at the firing pin hole?  Stone it down flat.  Avoid dry-firing the gun without snap caps since that can cause the burr.

[jasonfb123]

It does seem to have a bit of a burr.  I will stone it flatand test fire this week.
Thanks.

[mehavey]

By any chance are the cases a bit sticky to eject?
(Sounds like the primers are backing out, but not
re-seating because the case is neither slipping back
under low(er) pressure, nor stretching enough at
high pressure.

Try lubricating (oiling) the cases and run a cylinder-full to test.

[jasonfb123]

Well heck.
I took the burr off and cleaned and lubed the thing very well, and NOW it's worse.  As soon as the first fired case rotated past 4 o'clock it jammed up good. The primer is bulged out too far after the firing pin strikes it.  I am not an expert, but the firing pin "seems" very long and it seems like it protrudes thru the firing pin hole too far.  Is that a condition that can occur over time? The gun used to fire fine. 
Very odd.
Thanks for looking,
JB

[mehavey]

Again, have you lubed the cases to see/ensure that they can back
up enough to re-seat the primer as they fire?

ALL primers back out upon ignition.  It's only when the case slams
back from pressure buildup that the primers seat flush again.

[Abilene]

Is it doing it still with factory loads or the light reloads?  What you are describing is classic "load is too light".  But if it is still doing it with factory ammo, then it is something with the gun.  No, the firing pin sticking "too far forward" should not cause an issue, unless it is piercing the primer. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Check the loading gate screw to see that it is not loose and the gate interfering with rotation.

[jasonfb123]

Yes, lubed up well. Yes, factory ammo (Walmart Winchester 45 Colt.)
So I went once more into the shop to check the loading gate (which is where the primers hang) and it is flush with the frame, it's just the first thing the fired cases come into contact with.  And I decide to take the cylinder out and load the fired cases into it to see if any are proud and guess what I see?  Daylight! THRU about half of the primers.  I am going to try and attach a photo.

[jasonfb123]

So the big question is, now what?  It does it with reloads and factory ammo. 

[45 Dragoon]

Welp, your firing pin ain't too short there feller!! (This is where you go brag to the missus)

I'd say make sure the pin is rounded on the end and not sharp or "square cornered"/ reduce the length of the firing pin being sure to put the same shape (roundness found ) on the end . Also, check the head space to see if it is out of spec.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[mehavey]

Firing pin is waaaaaaay too long then.
Can you measure how much it protrudes from the frame when fully forward?
It should be no more than a regular paper clip's (~0.030")  diameter.

[mehavey]

[Trailrider]

First, if that picture is of your gun, the pin is squared-off and probably sharp-edged. The question is, what kind of firing pin does this gun have (based on its age)? When you cock the hammer, is the firing pin fixed solid in the hammer and the pin is conical shaped? Or does the firing pin float (you can easily wiggle it), and the shape is sort of curved from the widest part to the tip? How old is the gun? Can you give us a rough serial number range? That will help determine what type of firing pin the gun should have. If someone changed the firing pin (and maybe the hammer) to the more modern type but didn't change the firing pin bushing in the frame, then that could be the problem. OTOH, it may be that the hole in the bushing has become enlarged over use. If that's the case, the bushing will probably need to be replaced or re-bushed, with a smaller hole and the correct shape from the backside of the bushing.  Regardless, I think you need to consult a 'smith who is really familiar with Colt's Single Actions. The fixes aren't that difficult, but you need to know your Colt's.

[mehavey]

No, the pin is round. 
It's the pic optics that looks square.
(and this pic is that of my Taylor's Smokewagon -- the sweetest SAA  I've ever handled)

I posted it to see if the OP could compare it w/ his own, in which the symptoms (multiple pierced primers) might point to an overly long firing pin protruding from the shield face.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Are you shooting super light "mouse fart" handloads in this?

[45 Dragoon]

Mehavey,
That's a nice gun, I have an El Patron Competition that is my carry gun.
They can be made into quite a race gun ( hafta ditch them wire springs though!!)!! I fitted a blackhawk 45acp cyl to mine and mad it a convertible!!
Fun gun for sure!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Coffinmaker]

Enlarging your photograph of the cases in the cylinder, I see two issues.  First issue is your firing pin may be too long and too pointy, and may need to be stoned back just a hair and blunted just a touch.
Second, it would appear the primer centers are flowing back into the firing pin hole in the Recoil Shield.  I am thinking the hole may be enlarged from being peened by the firing pin.  When you stone it flat, this enlarges the firing pin hole.  Then, depending on your end shake and head space, the raised area on the primers is hanging up as the cylinder rotates.
"IF" (I'm not looking at your gun) this is the case, the only permanent fix is to have a hardened bushing installed in the recoil shield that is properly fit to the firing pin.  Or, the firing pin hole can in some cases be welded up, dressed flat and re-drilled.  You'd really need someone who truly knows what they are doing.

Coffinmaker