Question on Nipples

[Crow Choker]

I was going to write about this when I posted on Bottom Dealin Mikes post re: "Shooting the 61' Navy, as the question of nipples came up, but thought I'd just start a new posting. My question has to do with the fact that Tresco nipples used to be the 'go for' replacement for cap n' balls. Then along came the Slix Shots, Tresco's became hard to get, seems Slix Shots get all the high fives now. The Tresco's came to be 'hard to get', from what I was told because the makers were moving operations or something, I've seem them now listed on several dealer websites. Track of the Wolf is marketing their own nipples, the adverts say they are better than the Amco made Tresco's.

Question is, those of you who have used Tresco's in the past and have since used the Slix Shots, what do you like better. Any advantage one over the other or same? Anyone tried the Track of the Wolf ones? I still use the factory originals on all my percussion revolvers (one exception), yet to have any problems. Probably would benefit to using the others, have considered in the past to trying them in my Dragoon and 60' Army. I do have a Peitta 51 Navy in 44 caliber that I have two cylinders, one with original nipples and another cylinder I purchased that had Tresco's on it. In shooting the two cylinders, I have yet to see any advantage one over the other, not to say there isn't an advantage. Guess that is why I've hesitated to change to anything else, but I may, so that's why I'm asking. Any input appreciated.

[Coffinmaker]

OK.  The perceived differences in the available nipples is dependent on your desired end result.  There is a lot of science involved, Rocket Science actually, in the way the different nipples operate.  The nipple is a tiny rocket motor, with a combustion chamber, a Venturi and an expansion chamber. 
The original nipple designs knew nothing of rocket science.  The idea was to get as much flame as possible into the powder.  The Cap is the fuel and ignition source.  Cap ignites, flame ignites powder.  Then, the operation is reversed, the cylinder chambers become the combustion chambers and the flame goes the other way ..... Back.  To keep the cap on the cone, big heavy Main Spring.
TRESO was designed to reduce the back flow of gun gas and promote better flame travel into the powder, can use a lighter Main Spring.
Easier operation of the gun.
SlixShot were designed to promote the max flame travel into the powder while reducing the back flow of gun gas and provide pressure relief in the cone to aid in retaining the cap on the cone, with even lighter Main Springs (CAS the intended market)
TRESO and SlixShot both achieve better flame travel into the powder while reducing the need for a Dodge truck spring to keep the hammer on the cap.
OEM nipples and TRESO work well for general use, TRESO if you want to reduce the Main Spring (CAS).  SlixShot allow an even lighter Main Spring for shooting Cap & Ball in CAS competition.
Man this is long winded.
the other consideration is the fickle nature of Cap Guns.  Some will simply run better with TRESO, some will run better with Slix.  I tried TRESO in my CAS Cap Guns and go less than good results.  Slix in MY guns have been Uber Reliable.  Your results may well depend on your use of the guns.  For general use, you may not notice a lot of difference.  If the desire is to run fast, with reduce Main Springs and reduced powder charges for competition, Slix may well be your huckleberry.

Coffinmaker

[Fingers McGee]

I've got four pair of revolvers with Treso nipples and two pair of revolvers with Slix Shot nipples that I use in CAS matches.  A pair of Uberti 1861 Navies didn't like the Slix Shots with or without a lightened hammer spring, so the Tresos got put back on & they work fine again.  A pair of Pietta 1860 Sheriffs models & 2nd Gen 1861 Navies run great with Slix Shots.  I haven't tried Slix Shots in any of the other revolvers that have Treso nipples; but have no reason to believe they wouldn't work fine  I just don't shoot them much..

[Lefty Dude]

And now we know, Coffinmaker is a "Rocket Scientist" !

Excellent answers to Crow Chocker's post.

[Noz]

Used TRESOs. Went to Slix. Now back to TRESOs.

Only real difference is I feel I have less cap fragments under the cylinder with TRESOs.

June of 2016-Back to Slix.  They work well in my Rugers.

[Crow Choker]

Ahh-the crux of the whole matter!!!!! Thanks Fingers and Coffin for your replies and as Lefty posted "Excellent answers" to my post. What I meant by the 'crux of the whole matter' is what was posted in the replies as to Tresco's working better in some guns, Slix's in others, kinda like rolling the dice. Good info you posted Coffinmaker. I did search this forum by typing in Slix Shot and read most of what came up before posting my original post, but didn't see anything really comparing the two makes after extended use. Have read some time as to the advantage of using Tresco' over factory originals. I've read Mako's 'Nipple Info' (in Black Arts) a number of times, but that was written before Slix's came out and compared Tresco's to factory originals.

Your info Coffinmaker as to the use of lighter charges of powder and lighter mainspring is helpful. I don't use reduced loads in my cap guns; 20 grains in 36 cal, 30 grains in my 60 Army and 51 Navy 44's and Remington 44, and 40-45 grains in 44 Dragoon. Guess the only reduced load I shoot is 40-45 grains in my Walker. With that gun I don't plan on tryin to down a horse and see no need to use any more powder. The only gun I have a reduced spring in is my 61' Navy 36 that had the Dodge pickup spring in it you penned about, but have had excellent results with a Wolfe reduced spring and the org nipples.

I believe that if and when I do get some after market nipples, unless any other information comes along, Tresco's would suit my needs. Other than the original spring that came in the '61 Navy, I can thumb back the hammers with no problems on all of my cap guns and I don't use reduced loads (other than maybe the Walker). Another reason is I don't want to play the game of 'roulette' with nipples. In other words, since nipple sets run $30-36 a set (6 of em), I don't care to invest that much in them, find they don't work any better than the originals, invest in another style/brand, be not pleased with them, and end up having one or two sets of unused pricey nipples setting in a box. It wouldn't cause me any financial stress or hardship to do so, I just don't care to go that route. Noz posted how I feel; try one, go to another, go back to the first try. Guess I'm cheap, but I strive to use what works the best, just cheap, but will spend the green backs if that what it takes. "The crux of the whole matter"!

[Bruce W Sims]

I'm in your camp, Crow.....

I want dependable and consistent performance but don't see myself doing
any sort of competitive shooting. The thought crossed my mind though.....
Is it reasonable to put a pair of EACH of the nipples mentioned on a piece
and have a side-by-side comparison or would the outcomes be too iffy.

I was just thinking of what you said about the expense of buying an entire set of
six and then finding yourself going back to the originals.

BTW: I have not changed over yet but it seems that the TESCO nipples would
probably be the best match for me (IE. Infrequent, pleasure-shooting) as I
may decide at a later date to have a smith work-over my Dragoon .44 and
smooth-off some of the rough edges. Just sayin....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Lefty Dude]

Which ever you decide, make sure your Hammer  does not touch the frame when the Hammer is in battery. The Hammer will cause many problems if it is strikes the frame before the cap on the nipple.
Many times Uberti & Pietta will leave the butt of the arbor long by enough that the hammer will rest on this high spot where the keeper pin retains the Arbor to the frame. Smooth this area so there is no contact with the Hammer when the Hammer is at rest on the nipple & cap.

[Crow Choker]

Bruce: I don't shoot in any CAS type shooting due to the fact my day job keeps me busy during the week (11 hour days-heavy equip op) and spend most weekends catching up with things around the acreage, family (kids/grandkids), running to and fro, with some time spent 'river banking' (shooting). I'm posting at this hour because its equipment moving day and I took it off to catch up on yard work. Also I don't have a NCOWS Posse close by, do have a SASS affiliated group approx. 70 miles, but seems there's always a conflict the Sat they have their shoot. Being 66, I could retire anytime (and may do so, I'm a short timer any time I want to pull the plug), then I may get involved in comp shooting. When I do, I'll shoot my cartridge and percussion guns as is, no reduced loads, light springs, or what have. I won't shoot loads next thing to a howitzer load, but no 'puff tingers'.

I do want reliability, that's why I'm considering a change in nipples. When I do change, I want to get what works the best and not play around buying sets that don't work as well or wish I had bought another brand-hence why I asked for info in the first post. Thing is, I experience good reliability now with original nipples. Maybe because I take them off the cylinder each time after shooting and clean them with a tooth brush, pipe cleaners, and blow em out with compressed air. I can see them getting fouled more than the aftermarket ones, but I've ran upwards to 60 rds at a time with no problems (an occasional minor glitch-always will be with cap guns). Guess the old saying 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' may apply, but I can see the advantage of Tresco's and Slix Shots. I did shoot once at the SASS range under time and rules (borrowed 38 Spec Rugers and Marlin 94). Had all hits and good time. One of the officers of the club wondered how I did so well never having shot a CAS course. Told him my dirty little secret was I do a lot of shooting, been doing it most of my life, and used to shoot Police Combat and PPC courses when I was a LEO and always shot in the high 90%.  So, the quest continues!
Lefty Dude-read your post before I posted this. Good advice   

[Coffinmaker]

On another board I also posted a comment to a thread pertaining to Cap Guns and Nipples.

The thing to remember, Cap Guns are Fickle.  They harbor Gremlins (no, not the funky car) and often have Malevolent personalities.  Some,
just plain don't like us.  For those reasons, what works a treat in Cap Gun "A" may not work well, or at all in Cap Gun "B."  I'm fortunate,
that ALL my Pietta (only what I shoot) guns are quite happy and run like gang busters on SlixShot nipples.  That's 14 guns.  I are a happy camper.  Oh ya, my point, with Cap Guns ................

MURPHY.  Murphy's law plainly states .... "What ever can go wrong, WILL.  At the worst possible time."  There is no evading Murphy.  Cap Guns are "kits."  Expensive, deluxe, pre-assembeled kits.  OEM Nipples work.  The key question is the end result desired.  If your man activity is a pleasant day plinking and can rolling, no change necessary.  If your activity is, or is going to be CAS, with a light smooth action and absolute reliability, OEM Nipples and Springs are NOT your friends.  Oh, and Murphy, even with the most careful tuning, if you shoot Cap Guns, "it" is going to go wrong at some point.  Count on it 

Coffinmaker

[Fingers McGee]

On another board I also posted a comment to a thread pertaining to Cap Guns and Nipples.

The thing to remember, Cap Guns are Fickle.  They harbor Gremlins (no, not the funky car) and often have Malevolent personalities.  Some,
just plain don't like us.  For those reasons, what works a treat in Cap Gun "A" may not work well, or at all in Cap Gun "B."  I'm fortunate,
that ALL my Pietta (only what I shoot) guns are quite happy and run like gang busters on SlixShot nipples.  That's 14 guns.  I are a happy camper.  Oh ya, my point, with Cap Guns ................

MURPHY.  Murphy's law plainly states .... "What ever can go wrong, WILL.  At the worst possible time."  There is no evading Murphy.  Cap Guns are "kits."  Expensive, deluxe, pre-assembeled kits.  OEM Nipples work.  The key question is the end result desired.  If your man activity is a pleasant day plinking and can rolling, no change necessary.  If your activity is, or is going to be CAS, with a light smooth action and absolute reliability, OEM Nipples and Springs are NOT your friends.  Oh, and Murphy, even with the most careful tuning, if you shoot Cap Guns, "it" is going to go wrong at some point.  Count on it 

Coffinmaker

Amen.

[Noz]

I had just gotten into the cap gun portion of SASS when I had the opportunity of shooting with one of the best, at that time, Frontiersmen in SASS.  I told him I was shooting in his category but I would certainly not be able to offer him any competition.
He pointed out that any shooter at any time could beat any other shooter because "a Frontiersman is only one trigger pull away from a disastrous stage"

[Crow Choker]

I'll 2nd Fingers McGee's "Amen"!!

[Lefty Dude]

Well stated !

I won a match by Murphy's a couple of matches back. The shooting pard of mine forgot to load his cap guns, went to the loading table and capped the nipples. Stage was revolvers last to be shot. He left 50 sec. on the table. It was the last stage of the day.

[Crow Choker]

By the dates I see its been almost a year since I posted my question on Tresco vs SlixShots. Haven't upgraded yet, but am thinking about it, looking at various outfits that sell them. Jubal Starbuck reported excellent results in a post he authored about using Slix's and in conversation with him he is satisfied with the results. Anybody have any input garnered in the last year that gives either type higher marks than the other or used one, went back to the other? I haven't read of anyone or results from using the stainless steel nipples that Track of the Wolf markets. I pulled the plug from my day job of rearranging dirt back in April and am in a 'self imposed layoff'--(can't come around to saying the "R"" word yet-I'm not old, just to advanced in years to be playing around with big Tonka toys in dirt-don't miss the 11-12 hr days) Plan on once I get caught up with been gonna projects to do more shootin!!!!!
Anyway, any input much appreciated. Yours, Crow Choker

[Noz]

Check my reply #4 for most recent change.

[Flint]

My thought was that Coffinmaker capitalzed TRESO to indicate the proper name and spelling, it is not Tresco...  Apparently the hint was not taken....

[Navy Six]

Crow Choker, in the last two years I've gone a little nuts in retirement. Here's what I've used:
Teso equipped;
3 Rogers & Spencer
2 Uberti Dragoons
1 Pietta 51 Navy

Slix equipped:
4 Uberti 51 Navies
2 Uberti 60 Armies
2 Uberti 61 Navies

At the risk of being repetitive, both bands have been well made and consistent in dimensions. Remington # 10's have fit them all pefectly. Ignition has been pefect, but I have only used the stock mainsprings. Blowback is diminished, but fired caps sometimes fall off the nipples, sometimes not (I wish they would stay on so to avoid some of the usual Colt Open Top issues). These things are not a panacea but are better than the stock nipples. One last point for those that are anal about cleaning like me. The stainless steel Slix's seem to clean up easier.

[Coffinmaker]

At this point in time, I can only repeat some earlier comments of mine.  I currently shoot 8 sets of Pietta Cap Guns 7 of those sets are
my custom built Snubbies.  ALL are equipped with SlixShot nipples.  ALL are equipped with after-market Main Springs.  The springs are
either those sourced from VTI Gunparts or Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter mains.  I have NO ignition problems with Slix.
I "personally" don't like Treso.  It isn't that Treso don't work,  they do.  I just have better results with Slix.
There are some folks who have posted that Slix have eliminated caps coming back into the hammer channel or action.  Horsefeathers.
They just aren't shooting enough.  Slix aren NOT the "Be All - End All" answer to caps screwing up your day.  They are a VAST improvement over OEM nipples.  If one is going to use their Cap Guns in "Match Play," some form of insurance is necessary.  Either
Cap Guards (don't know who is doing this now) or Cap Rakes are a must.  Careful stoning and polishing of the hammer face can and
will mitigate "cap Sucking" but not totally eliminate it.

Coffinmaker

[Navy Six]

After hearing the reports the last few years of replacement nipples apparently solving the " cap sucking " issue, I renewed my interest in cap pistols ( it never totally went away ). Two years of experimenting has also proven to me this is "horsefeathers" as Coffinmaker described. Am I upset?--NO! Trying to solve the issues to make these things run well has brought a whole new aspect of "fun" back into my shooting. Since I shoot for the pleasure of it, solving the problems has forced me to shoot a LOT more.  Oh darn!