1860 Colt (Pietta) Hand Fix....

[rbertalotto]

Wrote an article with lots of pictures about my adventure today installing a Ruger hand spring in place of the flat spring in my 1860 Pietta conversions.

Lots of pictures, too big to post here:

You can read it here:

www.rvbprecision.com

Thanks

[Lefty Dude]

Looks familiar, I have modified four pair of Open-top Cap and Ball Colt Revolvers.
I had the same experience prior to the Arizona State Championships several years ago. My first pair of 51 Navies, one of the hand springs let go on the final stage of a Monthly Club Match two weeks before the Border Town State match in Tombstone. Lucky, I had ordered the Ruger plunger & springs from Brownells Months before and they were sitting on the bench.

I use my Drill press and press vise for holding the frame. Takes awhile to get the set up adjusted for the task. A mill would be the preferred method if I had one.

My next project this Summer is to install the Hammer block set screw in the frame. This will reduce the Hammer over-travel on full cock.
I might also do the Arbor/Frame bedding at the same time.

[45 Dragoon]

Lefty, you will like the stop a lot. While you're at it, add a bolt block . These two additions make the revolver feel and sound so different pluse the added protection of all the action parts as well as the cylinder!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[rbertalotto]

Where can I find more info on this hammer block and bolt block?

[45 Dragoon]

Roy,
i.m. sent.

Mike

[cheatin charlie]

I may be wrong but didn't you mean to center drill .100 instead of .010 from edge of hammer channel?  When I drilled mine I know .010
wouldn't work. 

By the way I have visited your site before and I enjoy it.

[Lefty Dude]

Lefty, you will like the stop a lot. While you're at it, add a bolt block . These two additions make the revolver feel and sound so different pluse the added protection of all the action parts as well as the cylinder!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

What size set screw do you prefer ? Would a 6/32 be proper for the task ?    Bolt block ? explain please.

[45 Dragoon]

Lefty,
I use #10x32. It needs to be right under the hammer wheel (roll).  #6 is a little small I think. I drill from the top and I don't drill all the way through. I then tap it followed by a bottom tap. Degrease and use blue thread locker.

The bolt block lays beside the bolt and is fitted zero tol. Its purpose is to fill the void on the left and not allow the bolt any side to side movement. Throw by happens when the bolt is hit hard enough by the trailing side (the side that slams into the tall side of the bolt) of the notch to torque the bolt sideways and push it down.

(Of course the other reason for throw-by is a weak hand spring not putting the brakes on the up coming ratchet. Which is why I don't use the above "Ruger" fix on mine or my customers weapons. A correctly tuned hand spring works perfectly. No offence to those that do use the coil & plunger.)

With the block, the bolt does its job (locking the cylinder) and protects the notches instead of beating them up and dragging across the cylinder.

I realize this is race gun stuff or overkill but these two installs are the best protection for the action parts and why they are part of my normal service.
I'll try and load a pic this evening.

Mike
www,goonsgunworks.com

[Lefty Dude]

I may be wrong but didn't you mean to center drill .100 instead of .010 from edge of hammer channel?  When I drilled mine I know .010
wouldn't work. 

By the way I have visited your site before and I enjoy it.

When I do the plunger hole on Pietta's I use .100" X .100", top down & right side to left.

[rbertalotto]

Yes, my mistake. .100" is correct. I'll correct the web article. Thanks!

[45 Dragoon]

Wow! It got a little quiet!!

Let me see if I can explain something.
In performing my service, I strive to keep from replacing parts and many of the guns I work on are new in the box when I get them. My service calls for 3 holes of differing size and the taping of said holes. If I had to set up and drill for the spring and plunger and then many times have to build up the back of the hand and fit that as well, I would never catch up!! The "Ruger" fix is fine if that is the fix you want. It is a good fix and will last the life of the gun.
I prefer to tune the flat springs which are the original to the design and in my opinion, feel better than the wire replacement springs offered by several sources. The flat springs can be individually tuned to their specific job and do it very efficiently. This includes the hand spring. The compound bend of the flat hand spring can be made to offer a light action with the ability to "put the brakes on" and prevent throw-by (which is the second job of the hand).
  The coil spring offers a fairly linear resistance and if "short stroked", can be made to allow throw-by pretty much at will. If someone offered a progressive spring for that duty, that would be the fix!!

So, to keep my job a little easier, I keep all the parts that can be of service and tune them rather than add more parts (with fitting) to an already time consuming service . 

Hope this helps the picture some what.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Coffinmaker]

Row, Row, Row yer boat gently down the stream ....... Yea I'm gonna stick my oar inna water.  I agree with Mike.  Properly set up, there is nothing wrong with a flat hand spring.  Except, I hate Uberti flat hand springs.  Uberti flat hand springs in their percussion guns and Remingtons suck.  They're too thin and flimsy.  But I digress.  I'm not addressing Uberti right now.

Pietta hand springs in their Cap Guns are very reliable.  there is very little if any "load" on the spring (unlike Uberti) until the hammer is cycled, and then only just enough to be effective in maintaining contact with the star and acting as a break.  However, if you look closely and the bearing area of a Pietta spring, it's concave where it runs in the channel and sharp on the edges.  Excess drag and wear.  Step one, after you smooth and polish the bearing side of the hand, is to eliminate the concave area.  Stone it flat and eliminate the sharp edges.  It will last near forever.  I have, however, replace ALL the flat hand spring with coil and plunger in my personal Pietta Cap Guns.  All I shoot are Pietta.  I don't like Uberti (personal).  With the right coil spring, the hand can and does perform it's "breaking" duty.  Many folks will reduce a flat hand spring or a coil to the point you may not be able to tell there is spring in there.  DONT DO THAT.

Coffinmaker

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks Coffinmaker!
While I like the flats, oddly enough I'm working on a retro fit solid bolt for Colt type and Remie revolvers, actuated a LA Ruger (spring and plunger in the hammer!!) I feel this would allow even less friction for the falling hammer pluse a bolt that would never break!!
( I know, ironic isn't it?! Lol!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[rbertalotto]

I shot 8 stages today of Warm Ups at the Tri-State Regional SASS shoot with my "Tuned" Piettas......Best times I ever posted. Folks wre actually commenting on how good my pistol times were. The accuracy from aligning the arbor and the confidence of the Ruger hand spring modification added up to a pair of GREAT feeling pistols.......Thanks Coffinmaker, Pettyfogger and Mike for all the help and fine comments!

(Pettyfogger....Kid Rich says "Hello!......We are camping side by side)

[Lefty Dude]

Once I decide that my reduced Hammer spring function properly with my action and slix-shot nipples, I fine tune with stainless steel split washers under the Hammer spring hold down screw. I start with one and can use a second one if needed. My Pietta 51 Navies have two and function fine with my two loads I use for competition.
The replacement springs I use, I buy from Cimarron.
Wolff springs and I had problems, just to light for C&B Colt Pietta Revolvers.
For my Son-In-Laws Pietta Remmy 58's I used VTI reduced replacement springs. They work very well.

[45 Dragoon]

You are most welcome rbertalotto!  Like to help when I can!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com