Judging Originals?

[James Hunt]

I had always thought of the originals class as a bonus to NCOWS. Being in an organization of like minded folks that had a small group of really like minded folks. This summer I enjoyed interacting with all NCOWS members. There are no posses around where I live, and no one else really shares this passion I have for history in my area - big SASS country. So I shoot CMS - a group of about 20 and except for me look like SASS with dirty duds whereas I look like a late 19th century cowboy with dirty duds - and also enjoy working on my historical persona. That is what I do to satiate my desire to live in the old west. Having the originals class allows me to play the NCOWS game even though I can only attend one or two ground shoots a year. Maybe there are others in my situation who would be happy to be NCOWS members if they had an activity that did not require them to be near posse to enjoy their efforts.

[Trap]

  James;  BINGO again!!

[Lars]

Having the originals class allows me to play the NCOWS game even though I can only attend one or two ground shoots a year. Maybe there are others in my situation who would be happy to be NCOWS members if they had an activity that did not require them to be near posse to enjoy their efforts.

James,

What I quoted from you pretty much describes our situation as regards NCOWS. Instead of CMS we have a local CAS club that shoots very non-SASS-like stages that we enjoy very much.

I will participate in the "Originals" class/side matches at any major NCOWS shoot I can attend, if it is at all similar to, or inclusive of, the persona/impression I am developing AND I have the guns. We will continue to develop our personas/impressions for our own enjoyment.

Lars

[Trap]

  Annie;
 you ask why make it a category?
 10 Shot it at the last natl. Some of those went to the natl. BECAUSE it was going to be offered. When we are struggling to get people to come to the natl. shoot, and it is generating alot of interest, and is no more difficult to put on or score than any other class why NOT offer it as a class. by the way, 10 is more than were in many of the offered classes. Do we drop them because of lack of interest??

     jt

[Trap]

  Del;
I think it should be offered as a category at the NAtl. and optional at all other matches. At the disgression of the host club.
   jt

[Wymore Wrangler]

Instead of having a side match or a class, why don't the Original's bring all of their reference materials (books, photographs, etc) to  larger matches, set up a tent and hold a school on authentcity research, and let the rest of the membership use these materials to increase their knowledge.  Not everyone getting into the NCOWS game has access to large old west reference materials, and many folks just don't have extra personal time these days.  At many multiple day shoots after the shooting is over for the day and sometimes it's early, folks take off because their isn't that much extra to do after making their purchases with the vendors, but on sight reading materials could be as much fun as shopping with the vendors, and much less costly.  So for those of you saying they like to share, belly up to the bar...

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hey Wymore, the idea of setting up in the fashion that you describe?  I really like that idea, I think it is really good, and perhaps we ought to pursue that.  THANK YOU.

Delmonico, I CANNOT rope!!!  However, my persona is not that of a cowboy either....

[Books OToole]

WW;

That was pretty much what we did at the Nationals.  All of the Old West Reference materiel of Anastaisa's Books (A vender at the Nationals) as well as my personal books were avaiable for any and all to look at and use. The porch of the book store was the scene of some pretty serious research. (and altoid julep drinking)  Some took advantage, others beat feet back to the hotel.

This is a tricky operation though.  I took my best references to the KVC 1880s Cowboy Town event.  Wave after wave of thunderstorms dumped on our camp.  Wave after wave of water flowed though my tent.  I thought my books were up and safe.  I was wrong.

I am always more than willing to help anybody do good research.  Let me know what books you want me to track down for you.  If you just want to look at a reference that I have, just ask.  I can bring them to the NCOWS meeting, the Convention or any shoot that I attend.


Books

[Dr. Bob]

I keep hearing that clubs will have trouble with any class that does not shoot all the rounds at each stage.  This is REDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!  A class such as Working Cowboy is not competing with any of the other classes.  Shooting fewer rounds per stage does not have ANY impact on the other classes at all!  At the 2005 NCOWS Nationals the WC shooters had to reload their pistol on each stage "because the other classes fired 10 rounds" although the other classes require two pistols and the WC only requires one.  I joined NCOWS because the WC required only 1 pistol and 1 rifle.  Reloading on each stage is not fun for me and most of the pards that I run with. [I know Terry Lane lives to reload on the clock.]  I will not shoot the WC main stages if I will have to reload my pistol on each stage.  It is no harder to add up the score of WC shooters who only shot 5 pistol rounds per stage than to add the score of a shootist or duelist who shoots 10 [5 from each pistol]  IT REALLY ISN'T!!!!!!!!!!

You don't have to write different stages.  Just let the WC shooters shoot thier 5 pistol rounds as the other classes and just score the 5 shots.  What is so difficult about that???  It does not take any additional effort to only score 5 pistol shots.  It doesn't cost any more to score only 5 pistol shots.  It shouldn't be any big deal!

I participated in the Originals class because I wanted to be authentic in my persona and it helped me to be certain that what I wear is right for my persona.  I enjoyed the fellowship of the other pards that want the same experience.  I have no wish to force this experience on anyone at all.  If you want to try it, I will be quite happy to help. If you don't want to try it, enjoy what you do and it will be fine with me.

Just don't tell me that wanting to shoot a different number of round in WC or the Originals wil bring catastrophic results to the club hosting a match.

Now I will step down off of my soap box and take a deep breath.  

[Dr. Bob]

WW,

I have to agree with OT & Books.  Great idea!!  I think that we can also make referrence material available at the Convention, where there will be more time available for this type of activity.  I will be happy to work wiht anyone who wants to learn more about clothing & equipment, whether or not they want to become part of the Origianls or not.  Y'all come!

[James Hunt]

Dr. Bob: well stated. I felt the Lord speaking with your oratory! Or was it the devil? Oh well, it all made sense to me.

Dell: I want to expereince my persona, I don't want to live it. For those that do great, enjoy it and I'll give tribute to the accuracy of their portrayal. Me? all I want to do is write down my persona, document my duds, weapons, and accourtrments, and for the fun of it put it in a book that has the front cover appearance of a dime novel, apparently a few others do also and I'll be happy to share it with all if asked to. Let us have a good time doing it within the organization that has an emphasis on expereincing history, no harm can come to that org. as I see it.

Your comment "If ya can't rope youre not a cowboy", absolutely. I think that we should all try our best to develop and expereince the attributes and skills associated with our persona. you bring up an excellent point.

Unfortunatley we are all limited. How many NCOWS members can ride a horse, heck how many have the ability to own one and spend time with it. But that should not exclude us pursueing an interest in any aspect that required horsemanship. I portray a buffalo hunter, I couldn't hit a school bus with my sharps at 500 yds, but I could at 200 yds. I' m getting to experience some of what a hunter would have experieinced. I can ride, I can shoot off of a horse, but I can't rope off my horse. I'd feel a little guilty portraying a cowboy because of that but that's me,  it should not limit others trying to expereince it.  Point is few of us will do it absolutely correctly, as I have read your columns in the Shootist, as I have listened to your comments on various boards, I consider you to be as close to it as anybody, Apparently you live your persona, most of us can't. But all of us are trying to move in a direction of accuracy, my trip requires me to write it down, your's doesn't. Both approaches seem to fit into NCOWS.

[Wymore Wrangler]

Books, personally I would like to see you hit the circuit as a full time vendor with reference materials, some publishers might bring some outdated books backout in paperback at cheaper prices if they would sell, and I believe they would.  I found E.C. "Teddy Blue" Abbotts "We pointed them north" in paper back  on Amazon.com and found out lots of good information, including a mention of my hometown and area which would be great to add to a persona...

[Wymore Wrangler]

Books, another point is that lots of people don't know what to ask for, so if you had books to show people what really is available "off the shelf", it would greatly help them in their own research....

[Lone Gunman]

Allrighty then...

I split this by routing some of the 'controversial' replies into a "RE: Judging Originals" topic on the other board and returning the main topic here.  That was a lot of work, I probably didn't to the best job with it...but it's the only job your getting 

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

Thank you, Lone Gunman. I watched the process and know it was a lot of work on your part. I appreciated the effort.

My current line of work has me involved with "certifications." Among these, some organizations work toward achieving certain "levels." Folks will work long and hard to achieve their levels, then undergo a peer review or a formal audit to see if they have achieved their goals. On receiving their results, they hang banners from the ceiling "We have achieved LEVEL 3 of the blahblahblah!", have cake and punch, and give out awards to the workers. It's a good thing, but it is flawed, because the organizations forget that it is supposed to be a continuous process of improvement and review to maintain their levels. Four years later, the banner is still hanging on the ceiling, but personnel, processes, and even the mission of the group have changed. The audit is a "spot check" of a specific point in time, and does not mean it still applies years down the road.

How does this relate to the "Originals"?  From what I have read here, as long as a person sticks to his "impression," he needs only the initial peer review. From then on, he is considered to be qualified as a participant and a judge, even though he may change his clothing and accoutrements. I'd like to see an ongoing peer review and requalification at every event where there is "Originals" participation. Since the participants document as a point of enjoyment and pride, such "recerts" should not be difficult for them.

I've also reconsidered my thoughts about having the "Originals" as a class at a match. I fully agree with Trap on this one: to make it a side match at the Nationals, and to make it optional for other shoots, based on what the organizers of that shoot want. If you add in Wymore's thought about having ongoing displays during the main part of the match, you'd create an even more beneficial outcome. This way, the Originals would get to shoot without having 50 seconds added to their time for every stage, would get to shoot with "people of like minds," and would be able to display/share their knowledge with the rest of the pards at their leisure during the match.


Stina, about the revolver? Women were often left alone for long periods of time in those days. The matter of "personal defense" was as much, if not more, of an issue to them as it is to us today. A rifle is good for varmit hunting and for putting food on the table, but isn't worth much when it comes to close personal defense. While a concealable pocket pistol would be good for hiding in a muff while in town, at home she might want something with a bit more "punch". If she has a husband, brother or father, they could very well have taught her how to use it. If there is a man in her life who often has to leave for long periods of time, he'd want her to be able to defend herself, her home, and their children while he was away. If she is widowed, she may have her husband's revolver. As for weaving it into your personna, I'd recommend putting yourself into her shoes and thinking of what you would be doing in her place. I'd be willing to bet you could come up with a great tale of how she came to have the revolver and how she learned to use it!

Thanks again to all the folk's thoughts on this topic,

AnnieLee

[O.T. Buchannan]

AnnieLee, you've come up with some very good thoughts and some very good points, and I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate it...

THANKS!

[Trap]

  Annie;
Thanks for having an open mind , Hopefully others will too.
I will say that I would like to see the "originals" as a main stage category at the natl. and optional at local and regional shoots.
At the disgression of the hosting club.
                                                               jt

[James Hunt]

Requried recert with any change in persona? sounds good to me. required recert every several years? don't have a problem with that either. good ideas.

[O.T. Buchannan]

Yes, those are very good ideas, I also wouldn't have problem with the recerts.  I also support Trap's idea of giving clubs the options of having the Originals as a class or not......

[French Jack]

I think that it would be appropriate to mention something here.  If the "Originals" is put in place as a category, all it means is that like all the other categories, it is on the list.  This in no way forces anyone to shoot it nor does it force any club or posse to offer it if there is no interest and no entrants.

Just like all the other categories, it is self-limiting.  If people want it, they have the option, if not, it remains in the wings.

Since it is proposed as an item on the Congress agenda, I am preparing a handout on it.  If anyone wishes a copy they should PM me and give me their mailing address and I will send them one. 
Believe me, it is not even close to being as difficult or involved as some responses have indicated.