Magnum vs Regular Primers with Holy Black

[Truly Grits]

Howdy Pards!
Please help me with my confusion  . Which primer is better for Holy Black Cartridges; Magnum or Regular. For CAS I shoot 45 colt in my lever gun, 30 grains of HB, 250 grain bullet. Shotgun is 60 grains of HB, with 60 grains of #7 1/2 shot. Buffalo Gun is 45/70, with 68 grains of HB, 535 grain bullet. 45 colt and shotgun brass both use large pistol primers; 45/70 uses large rifle primers. I have been using Federal primers, but in both pistol and rifle sizes, I can choose regular or magnum. I'm a little bit confused  . Which is better?

Cheers!
Truly Grits

[Cuts Crooked]

Tried em both down through the years, never noticed any appreciable difference.

[Navy Six]

For CAS I doubt you see any difference. Writing in early issues of The Blackpowder Cartridge News, Mike Venturino experimented with a variety of primers in the 45 Colt and found CCI magnums gave the best accuracy with the combination he was using. However, that was with some brands of blackpowder that are no longer available. Mike also fealt that the hotter magnum primers reduced fouling to some extant.
Like Cutts said, over the years for this game I've never found any meaningful difference in primer selection. I've come to prefer Federal standard primers, when given a choice, for a variety of reasons.
Bottom line is you would be safe with which ever primer you choose. After that comes the fun of experimenting with different bullet designes, alloys, lubes, etc. to find what works best for you in your part of the country.

[Ranch 13]

Regular large rifle primers, or even large pistol primers are much preferred over magnum primers. CCI Br2's are very popular with most blackpowders and see a lot of use in the top shooters in the bpcr world.
Some are even using a paper wad between the primer and the powder.
Pistol cartridges I don't think it would matter much.
I have been having real good results in chronograph testing and the targets are saying that Remington 9 1/2 primers are the go to primer with Olde Eynsford powder in rifles.  Have also been using Remington lp primers with the wcf cartridges and the 45 colt etc with the Olde Eynsford powder.

[Pettifogger]

For CAS shooting using pistol calibers there is zero different.  For big bores at extreme long range there is a never ending debate.

[Dick Dastardly]

Considerations to ponder in choosing standard vs magnum primers.

In order of importance. . . .

1. Availability
2. Price

There, you have it.

DD-MDA

[medic15al]

I use the Federal LP magnum because like DD said above, it was available and at that time cheaper than CCI standard. Also only had 200 CCI LP in stock and several 1000 bricks of Federal LPM.... Still working my way thru them! 

[medic15al]

Oh... Thanks to DD for the PRS Big Lubes and Whyte's Leather works for stocking the pre lubed 250 grn Big lubes! My life is now much easier when cleaning up after shooting! 

[Crow Choker]

Can't say when it comes to 45-70 style rifles or shotguns as I don't load either with black, don't even have a big bore Sharps/Falling Block rifle. My 45 Colt handguns normally get smokeless, but I have loaded black from time to time. In loading and shooting 44 Colt, using black powder, in both Open Top/Conversion style revolvers and a 66 'Yellowboy', I've found not a bit of difference in accuracy, fouling, or any other area that I've seen that gives the CCI Mag LP Primers I have used vs any of the standard Federal or Winchester LP primers I've loaded with. The old rule of thumb I always was told is that the Mag primer gave better ignition than standard primers when using black. This may hold true with larger loadings than the 25 grains I load my 44 Colts with, but I'd have to see the difference maybe in some ballistic lab setting. Most of the time I use Winchester primers with excellent results.  

[Coffinmaker]

I can't really address the really BIG cartridges, like 45-70 and such.  In fact, I can't really address BP.  I shoot APP.  A really marvelous Sub.
I shoot APP in .38 Spl, .44 Russian and .45 Cowboy 45 Special cases.  Light bullets.
I agree fully with Pettifogger and  Dick Dastardly.  In all the pistol cartridges I shoot, both in handguns and rifles, I can't tell a bit of difference between "regular" and "magnum" primers.  Everything I load goes BANG.  Sometimes I get a KLANG. 
Seriously, use what you can get.  As long as it goes BANG in your guns.  I use Federals.

Coffinmaker

[Fox Creek Kid]

There IS a difference. Years ago Mike Venturino did tests with revolvers in a Ransom Rest using BP & different primers. The results were clear in that for pistol ctgs. the clear winner was CCI Magnum Large Pistol. Of course, if you're shooting "garage door" SASS targets at halitosis range then it is of little importance. 

[Coffinmaker]

Hiya FCK!!

Yep.  I actually remember Venturing doing that.  I didn't pay much attention as I was not into BP at the time.  I think, if one were to do a study like that with the powders that are available now, the results might be similar.  But.  I don't think spending days and days over a hot Ransom Rest is a really good idea.  We shoot a bunch of different cartridges and the bullets we use may not have even been available then.  The results probably wouldn't be worth the time unless your interest was shooting tiny little groups out of a Ransom Rest.

As you so eloquently pointed out, we shoot at Barn Doors close enough to smell the paint.  Targets are "just right there."  I use to be a bench rest lunatic.  Jeez, my case prep was insane.  Now, If I were into shooting the smallest group possible, farther away than I can see, with something like a 45-70 or 45-110, I might be tempted to get crazy about components again. NOT!! 

Standing on my hand legs, with a gun in each hand, minute of pie plate is just fine.  Admittedly, I do sit down once in a while and fire away off a bag of led shot, just to see if the guns shoot where the sights point, and usually group inside a folded dollar bill.  It doesn't matter what primer I use, 3F or 2F, same result.  Minute of pie plate from my hind legs.  And again, I'm igniting a Sub.  there might actually be a difference if I espiramented with components.  A half inch difference at 25 yards or so, just doesn't seem worth the effort.  Especially, since my prime concern is hitting a door size target at 7 or 8 yards banging away really fast.  Well, fast when waiting for the smoke to move.

Run What ya Brung. ;>}   Oh, and with the amount we shoot, CHEAP counts.  It is more expensive to play with BP and Subs than it is with that funky smokeless stuff.  And, I almost forgot, ya can't shoot smokeless inna Cap Gun!!  Cap Guns R Us ;>)

Coffinmaker

[Truly Grits]

Thanks for the great info, Pards. I will only worry about using the magnum's in my 45/70 then.
Cheers!

[Fox Creek Kid]

Thanks for the great info, Pards. I will only worry about using the magnum's in my 45/70 then.
Cheers!

Large cal. RIFLE ctgs. are totally different!!! You have to test as each gun is different.

[Coffinmaker]

Absolutely!!  Big Ol huge rifle cartridges are a whole 'nother ball of ........ stuff.  The "big" rifles don't even like the same bullets, gun to gun.  The powder charge that works wonders in one will completely miss a buffalo size target at 500 yards.  Nope.  Big rifles take an awful lot of experimentation to get right.  However, with great big piles of powder, I'd probably go to Mag primers too.  then play with everything else.

Coffinmaker

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I'd probably go to Mag primers too.  then play with everything else.

Coffinmaker

Actually, for large ctgs., e.g., 45-70 & up, the mild primers seem to work best with real BP. Some fellas even use a cigarette paper over the primer to mute it.

[hellgate]

In Pat (?) Wolf's book on loading the 45/70 he recommended drilling out the primer pocket to a different size than the current standard and using magnum primers for best accuracy in the trapdoor. That is what I have done and I get about 1" groups at 50 yards from the sand bagged bench in my TD carbine. I do not remember the drill bit size for the primer flash hole drill out dimension but is do remember filing a notch in my brass rims to distinguish the drilled cases. He stated that the increased brusience of the magnum primer more closely approximated the old time primers and that the original cartridge cases had a larger flash hole which facilitated consistent ignition of the longer powder columns of BP large bore cartridges. At least that is what I recollect.