Cap 'n Ball Powder Loads

[Fox Creek Kid]

Interestingly, you rarely see the actual powder loads people use in their percussion revolvers listed. Wads, fillers & lubes are personal matters and there are tons of threads prattling on about that subject, but it's the actual powder that does the work. After a ton of testing years ago I decided to load all .44's with 25 gr. & all. 36's with 20 gr., usually FFFg blackpowder and always with round balls. It made life simpler and seems to give great accuracy across the board. Historically correct style conicals don't seem to shoot as well in modern non-gain twist barrels IMO.

What's your powder load?

[Blackpowder Burn]

ROA's with 35 grains of either FFg or FFFg (depending on my stock at the moment), a lubed wad and round ball. 

When I get some extra money, I'm going to buy a mold to cast conicals to fit the Rugers and give it a try.

[Cliff Fendley]

28 grains in a 44 if I am just plinking/target shooting/cas etc.

36 grains if I'm hunting.

FFFg black powder

I agree on the projectile, I have always found just as good or better accuracy with a round ball in modern reproductions.

[Lucky R. K.]

I have a pair of Ruger Old Armies and a pair of Pietta 1858's and for SASS I shoot the same load in both.  21 grains of 3F Goex and a 150 grain Pecos Pete bullet.  Recoil is mild and the load will deal with a knockdown if necessary.

Lucky

[Thumb Buster]

+1 on what Cliff uses.  I have a throw that is supposedly 30 grains but it's always just shy of that.  As for the .36 I'm thinking it's about 21 grains.  Here again that's a guess.  For either the .36 or the .44 I use FFFg; both with wads and round ball as I have never had the opportunity to try conicals though I've wanted to just for kicks and giggles.  There is one flask tip in my possibles bag that was supposed to be 30 grain but really throws closer to 35 grains.  Tried it once but had to leave the wad out and it really spoke to me.    Made the range officer check up on me. 

[Dick Dastardly]

Cap & ball pistols were designed to use a lightly compressed charge of black powder under what ever projectile was seated on top of it.  Projectiles have varied from round ball to hollow base to conicals and now to conicals with rebated bases and big lube groves.  The Big Lube conicals are designed to haul all the lube needed with no use for wads, over bullet smears or other adjuncts.  Simply pour in the powder and seat the lube/sized bullets on the powder.  Accuracy is excellent and function remains good for entire SASS matches.  All that lube splashes where ever the smoke goes.  Fouling is soft and blows out on the next shot so that your last shot and your second shot encounter the same amount of fouling.  Remington 58s have a reputation for fouling the cylinder base pin so that the cylinder gets hard to turn.  Tests with Big Lube conicals have shown that as many as 100 rounds can be shot and the cylinder remains free.  Trouble free accurate shooting is what we want for our chosen sport.

DD-MDA

[Fingers McGee]

My usual main match revolver is a .36 caliber 1851 or 1861 Navy.  I bought a couple thousand .454s from a source a few years ago that is no longer in business; but I only shoot .44s occasionally, so have enough to last a long time yet.

.36 1851 and 1861 Navies get 22.6 grains (by weight) fffg Grafs (using a 21 gr flask spout), wonder wad, and .380 Log Cabin Sport Shop roundball.

.44 Caliber 1860 Armies get 25.8 grains (by weight) fffg Grafs (using a 24 gr flask spout), wonder wad and .454 roundballs from a source that is now out of business.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

In my experience, EFFECTIVE percussion revolver charges fit in about a 20% range. The charges FCK uses are just above the low end and others listed are near the top.

I said EFFECTIVE LOADS. Some target shooters affect lower charges  - with fillers.  Others , the crammers, pound it in. Look to the intended use, but more importantly, the likes of your revolver. My first 1858 was a PIETTA that I shot with about 20 grains, at first! I planned to work up.  I thought it was a dud as I got flyers, about two per cylinder. I moved up to a near capacity load of 28 grains of FFFg and realized I had a target pistol to rival most of my cartridge guns. I have since toned it down a bit, and with experience good results can be found.

For CAS use, I make pre-loads held in cartridge cases with the ball pressed on top. I make my own lubed wads out of egg carton pulp between the powder & ball. This does take up a small bit of space. The loads I have settled on are; - 20 grains for the .36 & 25 gr. for the .44.

Conclusion? Find a load that fits your purpose and revolvers within that 20% range.

[medic15al]

Historical is my interest in BP shooting and in my Pietta 1860 Army caliber I fill the chambers with FFFG and only leave enough space to seat the ball. Around 38 grns by volume on my measures.

I mainly shoot BP 45 Colt cartridge now and haven't played with the cap-n-balls in a while.   

[Coffinmaker]

I shoot APP.  Round Ball, no lube at all.  Powder load for the .44 Cap Guns (all I shoot now) is about 21Gr 3F.  I only have one pair of .36s and those get about 18Gr 3F, Round Ball.  Accuracy is great.
When I shoot cartridges, I shoot Cowboy 45 Special cases, 130Gr Hollow Base Wad Cutter (AJ's Barnstormer Bullet or a Round Ball).  I don't know what the charge weighs, just fill the case to the base of the bullet or ball and a tight crimp.  Accuracy is also great.

Coffinmaker

[Lefty Dude]

I, like Coffinmaker shoot APP. My present Match pair of Revolvers are Pietta 36's and I use two loads. Last Week I Checked my load with the Chronograph. The 18 gr. flask spout by weight is 13 gr. of APP3F. This load with a 5 shot groups average was 625fps. I use this load for my main match load
The 21 gr. flask spout by weight 15 gr. of APP3F. And the 5 shot average was 971fps, with two shots over 1050 fps. This load was also the most accurate, shooting a 1 1/2" group at 15 yards benched and a two hand hold over sandbags. Interesting what three grains of powder can do for the velocity  of the same ball weight of 78 grains.

My loading at the bench was done with the cylinder off the frame, using DD's excellent "Tower of Power".

It appears we all use, very close to the same loading by volume in our C&B Revolvers.

Excellent thread BTW.

[PJ Hardtack]

I shoot APP.  Round Ball, no lube at all.
Coffinmaker

Interesting ....

I've shot in a few matches with a pal who doesn't use lube on his Walkers or ROA's. He doesn't have any issues and has not had a chain fire that I'm aware of.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Interesting ....

I've shot in a few matches with a pal who doesn't use lube on his Walkers or ROA's. He doesn't have any issues and has not had a chain fire that I'm aware of.

If your projectile is properly oversize whereas it completely seals off the chambers mouth then any chain fire would be caused by ill fitting caps on poor cones.

[Crow Choker]

Goex FFF powder in both Colt and Remington style revolvers. 20 grains in 51' and 61' 36 caliber Colts using .380 lead balls with a lubed felt wad. All the 44's, Rem 1858, '60 Colt Army get approx. 30 grains of FFF, .454 lead ball, and lubed felt wad. My gun that never was a Pietta '51 44 caliber gets the same. A 2nd Model Dragoon and Walker get approx. 40-42 grains of FFF, .454 lead balls and lubed felt wad. Cast all my own balls from free lead. All powder is measured using Colt style flasks, so the grains can vary a tad each time, recoil is no issue and  I hit what I'm aiming at, that's good enough for me. Lots of boom and smoke. Love the smell of black powder smoke!!!!

[Coffinmaker]

Hi PJ and FCK,

FCK is correctamundo.  All my current Cap Guns Pietta .44s.  Either 1860s, with 3 inch barrels, or 1851s (never nevers) with 3 inch barrels or 4 3/4 inch barrels.  All I use are either cast 451 or swaged 451 balls.  I load my cylinders with a Tower of Power.  Each chamber shaves a small ring of lead off the balls and the balls completely seal the chamber.  No chain fire from that end.  ALL my guns are equipped with SlixShot cones, and I use Remington #10 caps.  Caps are snug enough, they prefer a final "push" to fit.  No chain fire from that end.

With cones in good shape, tight fitting caps, and sealed chambers, chain fire is a non-issue.  APP makes it's own "lube" if you will.  I can shoot a 12 stage two day match with out a cleaning.  Since I load the cylinders off the frame, each time I load I wipe the cylinder face with a damp cloth and wipe off the back of the barrel.  Drop of oil or grease on the arbor.

I don't know how many folks have noticed, but the back of the cylinder on a Colt type SA registers on the star.  Not so on a Pietta Cap Gun.  Back of the cylinder registers on the ring that runs around the recoil shield.  Keep the back of the cylinder clean and a "drop" of oil on that "ring" and your gun will run a lot smoother.  If you haven't already learned, petroleum based lubricants don't play well with BP or Subs.  Pick a nice synthetic,  I prefer Mobil 1 grease and oil.

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

FCK's loads are pretty close to the loads I've always used...

.44 1860 Colts: Uberti, Pietta, ASM, 8" Bbls - 25 gr FFF + .454 RB (.451 won't shave lead on the Ubertis).

.36 1851 Colts: Uberti, 7 1/2" Bbls - 17 gr FFF + .380 RB, OR 17 gr FFF + Lee Conical
Note the conical-ball load provides harder-hits on steel, although my compadres tell me the RB loads are easy to spot.

.44 Colt 3rd Model Dragoons: Uberti & Colt, 7 1/2" bbls - 40-50 grains FF + .454.RB, OR 35 grains FFF + 200 gr pure-cast bullet (.45 ACP SWC)

Slim

[Lefty Dude]

Coffinmaker;

I have changed my Revolver lube from Mobil 1 to Frog Lube, a huge difference.

Try it you will like it.

[Pappy Myles]

In my ROA's I have used both the Hornaday .457 with a felt wad soaked in SPG on top of (1) Pryodex Pistol 30 grains (2) 777 FFG  22 grains and (3) 34 grains FFFG Goex.      I like the Goex best.

I've also used Big Lube ROA2 bullet with Pryodex Pistol 30 Grains.   I get lots of recoil and have been known to knock down the pistol targets with them.   er, Not intentionally, but it does set them wobbling.

When I get back home, I want to try Goex with the ROA2 bullet.    Its about to become my "all purpose bullet" in 45 cal

my ROA's are loaded with the tower of power.........I know, shameless plug ..........but what can I say

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for the flowers Pappy,

The big DD-ROA-Flat does knock 'em well.  The nice flat nose is compliments of Paladin UK.  He's the one that figured out that that bullet works very well in 45 Colt chambered lever guns.  It also shoots real nice 50 yard one hole groups with my little Thompson Center Seneca 45 Cal front stuffer.  I've shot it out of my 1860 open tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders loaded in Cowboy 45 Special brass and out of my ROAs, both in C&B dress and with Kirst Konverter cylinders loaded in 45 Colt brass with a compressed charge of FFFg Schuetzen.  That rig does roar rite proud.  My sidekick, Pukin' Dog, has had good success with this same bullet in his 45ACP Kimber pistols.  Also, I've made up some nice accurate low intensity camp meat loads for my 45-70 with it.

What more could you ask from a 45Cal black powder bullet?

DD-MDA

[Coffinmaker]

Thanks Lefty.

I'll see if I can scare some up.  I'm in a little burg in western PA and we don't get much in the way of "good stuff."  Catalogues are your friend here.

Coffinmaker