Cimarron/Uberti Cattleman issues

[Good Troy]

Howdy....

I could use some help.  I've had a matched pair of Cattleman revolvers for just under a year now.  I've had two issues....hammer springs becoming too weak for reliable primer strikes, and bolt/hammer wear causing the cylinder to lock-up in half-cock. 

I've had to replace the hammer spring twice on one of them due to light primer strikes.  Now, I'm having to replace the hammer and cylinder bolt on one of them, as it is worn such that the cylinder often locks up in half-cock.  Currently, my parts are purchased from VTI.  Any suggestions on modifications or more durable/reliable parts would greatly be appreciated.

BTW, These revolvers are in 45LC.  I shoot a 200 grain bullet over full BP loads.  I use CCI primers.  Yes...I know these are hard primers, and am swapping to Federals, but this still doesn't account for the spring becoming weak so soon.  I can depress the spring with very little thumb pressure after about 6 matches!   

Thanks in advance....

[Coffinmaker]

After a lot of years as a CAS Gunsmith, I have not encountered a problem like yours, so I have to ask some questions.
Are your guns stock??  Have your Main Springs been reground??  Has the bolt been altered??  Has the hammer cam been altered??

It's not uncommon to encounter excess wear on the hammer cam of a Uberti SA.  Although, not usually within the firs year of service.  Most go thru years of hard use before the hammer cam wears to the extent it must be drilled out and replaced or a new hammer put in the gun.

Same Same for stock Main Springs.  Normally, the Main Spring is good almost forever.  If it is overheated when being reground, it may not be a spring.  If it is an aftermarket spring, I'd check with the supplier, to see if others are having the same problem.  I once ordered a hundred springs from a jobber and all the springs were ...... not springs.  the jobber refused to exchange or refund.  New jobber.

Undue wear can occur to the hammer cam if the bolt has been improperly altered.  Sticking in half cock would indicate a problem with the bolt and it's relationship to the hammer cam.  Again, were those parts worked on??

Your ammunition should have no bearing on the problems you describe.  My first guess would be untrained finger poking in the lock works of your guns.

Coffinmaker

PS:  If the fix was brought to me, my first step would be to dump the parts of the lock works in the trash and start over.  I'm retired now though 

[Bibbyman]

I've has a matched pair of Uberti Cattleman 45s for over two years.   I have replaced the hammer and bolt/trigger springs with Wolfe springs. They have not given me any problems.

I'll ask another question.  Have you dry fired them a gazillion times? 

[45 Dragoon]

As a bolt arm and hammer cam start fighting each other, the additional friction may be enough to cause ignition probs. This is probably why the lock up at half cock (bolt won!!). There is probably some marks on the left side of the hammer from being pushed against the frame from an over tensioned bolt arm.
This is where a good tuning would prevent this situation from developing. A new bolt and cam and re-tensioned springs would be in order. The main spring may be ok . I agree with Coffinmaker.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

[Thumb Buster]

Don't know if this'd help or not, but my Uberti Hombre was having the bolt starting to chew on the cam because of that danged super-stiff Uberti bolt/trigger spring as well as a rough bolt leg.  I swapped it out for a stock spring, polished up the 'flag' (the leg) and that stopped that particular problem.  Of course then the hand engaging the ratchet before the bolt drop was attended to.  Both of these on top of all the deburring and such have made it a totally different revolver.  Now it's my favorite SA.

[Good Troy]

Thanks good folks....

Coffinmaker - The revolvers are unaltered. The only change made was replacing the original main spring...which probably didn't need to be now that I think about it.  I had a rash of misfires.  The hits looked light, so I replaced the springs.  I still had a few misfires from that batch of ammo with the new springs....probably a bad batch of primers.  Also, I recall when I originally replaced the springs, that one of them was significantly weaker than the other.  I kept the original springs, so I can re-install them...plus, I have some new ones on order.

Bibbyman - I've used the revolvers since last May or June.  I shoot about 2 matches a month, so I've probably put less than 1,500 rounds through the pair.  Very little dry firing, too.

45 Dragoon - Yes, there were light score marks on the left side of the old hammer.  I lightly filed the hammer channel, but doubt that I made a difference.  I'll check the new hammer to see if it is contacting.  I'll replace the bolt/trigger spring when my new kit comes in.  Should I not be able to solve my issues, you may get some business from me...I'll send you an e-mail via your website.

[Good Troy]

Thanks Thumb Buster....
Sounds very much like what is going on with mine.  I'll have some new parts here soon, and I'll see what I can do....or can't do!
I do very much like the revolvers, and do not plan to abandon them at this point. If I can't make them smooth, some one that knows what they are doing can!

[Long Johns Wolf]

I had similar issues with one pistol of my matching pair of Uberti SAAs in .44 Special cal. after 8 years of CAS use without problem. Both came with the coil spring/plunger for the operation of the hand installed by the factory.
The only thing that is not factory on these pistols is the bolt/trigger spring. I exchanged the factory leaf springs for those made of piano wire when I purchased the revolvers. 
Last year I completely disassembled, cleaned and  reassembled them like I do about every other year.
It was after that cleaning operation that this problem began. One SAA did not strike the Federal primers of my reloads hard enough to reliably ignite them.
The solution? When I had reassembled the pistols I had this tiny little screw that secures the coil spring of the hand screwed-in a mite too deep. Just under the flat of the frame area which is covered by the backstrap.
Once I brought the top of this screw back and level with the frame the problem was gone.
Long Johns Wolf

[Bibbyman]

I know people thank the coil spring and plunger is an improvement over the flat spring but to me it's a pain in the butt.  It took the wife and I about 5 minutes to get the set set screw back in.  And if you don't disassemble in a box, you have a good chance of loosing the little buggers.

[Thumb Buster]

Those teeny-tiny screws are a problem for me too then someone on this forum suggested obtaining a longer spring that will protrude a bit more from the frame and just forget the screw altogether.  I believe they mentioned springs from a Bic cigarette lighter cut to an appropriate length.  Just butt up the back strap like your would on a Ruger revolver.  Well...okay, said I and I have tried it.  It works.  No more fighting that screw using eyeglass screwdrivers and thick grease.  No more cussin' ether.  Me, myself and I like the old leaf spring.  Seem to recall that on the original Colts this spring was replaceable and not staked in like they are on the Italian reproductions.  Too bad you can't retro these new frames.   

[Abilene]

Good Troy,
Regarding the light strikes, even with Federal Primers.  One possibility is high primers, or primers not fully seated.  When this happens, the firing pin strike will seat the primer, but this takes some of the force of the hammer blow and does not set off the primer.  When this happens, usually a second firing pin strike will set off the round.  You can visually check for high primers but sometimes it is hard to see.  Setting the ammo upright (primer down) on a flat surface will indicate a high primer by the round rocking back and forth a bit.  Good luck.

[Bibbyman]

I did have one small problem with my pair of Castleman.   The area around the firing pin hole started to peen outward making a ridge around the hole.  I stoned this ridge off.   I have an old Cattleman of 1970s vintage that has raised a burr around the firing pin hole a couple of times.  This burr can cause the case heads to drag.

[Good Troy]

Good stuff, guys!
I have a lot to move forward with now.
I'll give an update later, after I've had the time to trouble-shoot some more.

[Good Troy]

Update.....I took the revolvers to the range this weekend, and fired both LC and S&W (Schofield) rounds.  I was having the issues with the S&W rounds previously.  I had no misfires....BUT, the primers were high on the S&W rounds.  I had to reject 3 of the 70 rounds I fired, as they wouldn't allow the cylinder to rotate, and most of the rounds barely made the clearance!   I suspect this was the issue all along. 

The good thing is, that this event has forced me to become more educated and experienced on the workings of the SAA.  I replaced the hammer and bolt on one of the revolvers, and the bolt drop is dead on.  The bolt drops about 1/10th of an inch before the lead in slot on the cylinder, and always has.  I replaced the bolt, but no change in bolt drop timing.  Apparently, the cam is off on the hammer....maybe a new hammer?  Only another $100! 

Thanks for your input good fellows...and particularly a shout out to 45 Dragoon for the phone call, and tips!!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I replaced the hammer and bolt on one of the revolvers, and the bolt drop is dead on.  The bolt drops about 1/10th of an inch before the lead in slot on the cylinder, and always has...

Enjoy the moment as that happens about as often as Hillary Clinton answering a hardball question.

[Good Troy]

Update....I replaced the bolt and main spring with Wolfe wire springs.  They both are timed well now!
Apparently, the bolt spring was a bit strong, and forcing the bolt to slip off the cam early.