Cheyenne Holster question or favor

[Black River Smith]

In 1990, I made two cheyenne holsters from a picture of one in a 1980's Cowboy Outfitters catalog or so I thought.....  They finished out a little wide because of my measurements and pattern design.  This was before Packing Iron was published.  Even after getting my copy of PI, I did not notice the small section of welt in the trigger guard area created by Meanea.  Then reading a posting in this forum about Meanea holsters and that welt, did I then go back an re-examine the photos closer.

The main question is --- does the Will Ghormley Cheyenne pattern utilize the welt?  If yes, does anyone know where to get a set of Will's patterns, new or used?  I have checked the internet all over.  One shop had the pattern for $14 with $18 shipping, that is not for me.

I have recently bought 5 of Will present pattern designs from Tandy and really like the final fit of his patterns.  That is why I would like his Cheyenne package but not for $30+.

An alternative question/request is --- can someone show a picture of the welt shape and its' length measurement?  With that and the Stohlman - " How to make Holsters" booklet, I should be-able to work it into one of Will's existing patterns or my redesign.

Any info appreciated.
Thanks

[Cliff Fendley]

You can add that little piece of welt to any pattern. Don't know if Will's pattern shows it or not. To my recollection every original Meanea holster I've seen has it as well as some of the other makers of the northwest area. The Al Furstnow rig I recent posted a picture of also has the small bit of welt at the top of the main seam.

[Camano Ridge]

I just looked at my Ghormeley Cheyenne pattern pack, it does not have the welt nor did I find any mention of it.  Zack White has the pattern pack however there shipping is fairly high I believe $12.00 the last I looked. You might try Oregon Leather in Portland Oregon the last time I was there they had the pattern and there shipping is usually not that bad.

[dwight55]

Stay with me on this Black River, . . . not complicated, . . .

Open up your holster pattern so the inside is face down.

Lay the pattern down on a piece of 8 oz leather so that just a tad bit is peeking out along the sewing edge of the holster you are making for your revolver.  

This is the outside sewing edge, . . . not the one next to your leg.

Outline the edge of the holster edge from top to bottom.  Cut that line.

Next take a pair of dividers and lay out a 3/8 inch wide piece using the cut edge as the outside edge.  

Cut that line, . . . lay it on the inside of your pattern, . . . you have a welt.

Now, . . . there are times that it is a little wider, . . . sometimes narrower (not much), . . . sometimes thinner, . . . sometimes thicker, . . . but this is a good "starting" place.

Cement it in, . . . sand the edge smooth, . . . edge / burnish / sew, . . . voila, . . . western holster with a welt.

This is the basic procedure for my western rigs.

May God bless,
Dwight

[ChuckBurrows]

The Meanea welt is not full length of the main seam but the basic process is similar. Layout as Dwight noted but the welt should only be about 3" long - about where the top loop crosses the body. Now skive the welt to a taper from top to bottom, glue up and sew.

I find using heavier than normal leather for the welt (and toe plug too) works best - something like 14 oz or just glue up two thinner layers

[Cliff Fendley]

The welt is very short and tapered, about 8-9 oz or 9-10 oz leather, about 3/8 of an inch wide.

I usually make them about 1 1/2 inch long counting the tapered part but don't specifically measure the length, I just trace the edge of the top portion of the holster on assembly and make a short welt as dwight explained and then take a knife and slice it to a taper.

So actually the length of mine vary but the length on originals seem to vary in length but most are very short, about an inch long.

I will try to post a picture of one of mine and an original.

[Black River Smith]

dwight55, I have done full seam welts both single and double thickness for modern looking holsters but as Chuck states the welt in a Meanea Cheyenne holster is not full but only partial.  That partial length is the whole issue since it must be tapered or V'ed at the bottom.

Chuck thanks for that 3" guidance, I will work with that.  The shape is truly obvious but I through it in the request hoping for a photo image or a drawing someone had on hand.

Camano thanks for the shop names.  I will look them up for the pattern.

Cliff that knowledge of a Meanea welt had elluded me all these years until a couple of months ago.  I never had my hands on what I would now call a real original western holsters.  Even the ones I have seen at gun shows since the 1980's, in my area, are modern or 30's/40's not 1880's or 90's.  

Most photos of holsters are straight-on or slightly angled therefore the welt was not visilbe.  Only after reading a comment about it being used in Meanea Cheyenne patterns did I go and look 'real close' for photos that would show it and I did find some.  Even the latest holster I did with the money belt is a double recurve but the picture is not clear if it utilzed a welt so I left it out.
But I want this next Cheyenne to be as correct as I can make, in shape at least, ie PI page 118, 120 or 121.

Thank for the info

Cliff you added your new info as I was typing this response.  That 1 to 1 1/2" appears to be consistent with the holster photo on PI page 118.

Again thanks all

[ChuckBurrows]

As Cliff noted the welt varied in length, at least on the several originals and I should have mentioned that earlier. I like the 3" because when skiving I have trouble holding the shorter pieces, whereas after skiving the longer piece which I can get a good hold on, I wind up with about 2.25" finished length I like a feather edge so tend to keep shortening when not "right".
I'm not sure on how much help the welt gives although it's easier to make a pocket for the trigger guard with one and if your doing a copy of an original with one then that's the way to go.

[Cliff Fendley]

A pocket for the trigger guard is all the welt does.

As Chuck said the short piece of leather is a little hard to hold on to in order to skive it so I usually make it a little longer, glue it to the front part of the holster according to how long I want the welt and then cut off the excess and finish to the top edge of the pouch before folding and sewing to the back part. It looks a little more 'finished' at the top that way too.

I don't know if that explanation is understandable, hope it helps.

[Graveyard Jack]

I haven't utilized Will's Cheyenne pattern yet but I've found that some of the others are a little generously sized and needed taking in for a snugger fit. At least the movie rigs are made generous for fast work on camera. This will be even more obvious when adding a welt. I also like the nice pocket for the triggerguard that the welt provides and will add one to the Cheyenne when I use it. When I do, I'll probably take it in a little, at least in the upper portion of the pouch. I added a partial welt to the Flames of Hell and took the pattern in quite a bit to get a snug fit. I always do a tracing of the sixgun when converting a pattern from paper to manila folder, in case I need to make adjustments to the pattern for a good fit. When I did the Johnny Ringo, it was for a Single Six and because that wasn't part of the pattern pack, I used the 1851/1860 pattern and adjusted it to fit.

[Black River Smith]

Chuck, Cliff,

Thanks for the added detailed process procedures you both utilize.  It does make sense in handling and finishing.

Thanks to all.

[Cliff Fendley]

Not a Cheyenne but here is a closeup of the welt on the Al Furstnow reproduction I just made that is done just like a Cheyenne. It is Chestnut skirting leather so you can see the layers very well. I actually made the welt a little bit longer than what is on the original holster.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Not a Cheyenne but here is a closeup of the welt on the Al Furstnow reproduction I just made that is done just like a Cheyenne. It is Chestnut skirting leather so you can see the layers very well. I actually made the welt a little bit longer than what is on the original holster.

That's a little longer than I've done in the past. I like that and will remember it.

[Cliff Fendley]

That's a little longer than I've done in the past. I like that and will remember it.

Most originals are a little shorter but if I am making one that will likely see use in CAS or re enactment I will many times make the welt longer because it gives the trigger guard a little more room for drawing and holstering. Just a slight performance improvement to an original style without going gamer.

That is the first reproduction of that pattern and made it for my newest revolver pictured with it. Plan to use it in NCOWS.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Most originals are a little shorter but if I am making one that will likely see use in CAS or re enactment I will many times make the welt longer because it gives the trigger guard a little more room for drawing and holstering. Just a slight performance improvement to an original style without going gamer.

That is the first reproduction of that pattern and made it for my newest revolver pictured with it. Plan to use it in NCOWS.

I like the way it makes that extra room for the trigger guard. In the field, that wouldn't be a benefit but I can see it for CAS or NCOWS as you pointed out.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

I like a good fitting welt, it adds a quality touch that also allows for a better draw and re-holster, same goes for a knife sheath, looks good Cliff...

tEN wOLVES