Neatsfoot oil vs. olive oil.

[River City John]

Are they pretty much interchangeable?

OK to put olive oil over an initial application of neatsfoot oil?

What I am using for is to soften a 1903 pattern bandoleer so as to stretch a.) the individual pockets to fit two charger clips of five rnds. each, as originally designed, b.) stretch out a straight-cut bandoleer so that it angles better to fit over the shoulder, and c.) darken a fairly light colored leather to make it look more field used.

Water repellence is just a side benefit. I applied neatsfoot oil with a pad of elk skin, but am wondering if I couldn't use one of those spray cans of olive oil for cooking as additional coats while stretching.

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

RCJ

[Camano Ridge]

If you are trying to stretch or mold to fit something. My suggestion would be instead of oil use water. Get the pouch front good and wet , it should feel pliable, then push your item wrapped in plastic wrap into the pouch and use your hand to shape the way you want. Let dry. Then apply a light cote of oil. The problem with using just oil is that you may have to use so much to get it soft enough to get as pliable as you want that it may leach oil back out for a while. Also it will not hold the shape you want like a wet molded pouch will.

[dwight55]

I also will not put olive oil on anything but my salad and my steak, . . . neither of which is leather.

While I have not had any personal experience, . . . and don't want to learn the hard way, . . . I picked up somewhere that olive oil will turn rancid after a good period of time, . . . and that would not be a good thing,

Again, . . . just what I heard, . . . don't know for sure, . . . but I don't take chances on stuff like that.

May God bless,
Dwight

[Bruce W Sims]

I don't have the experience many folks here do, so I can only speak from my own experience.
I was introduced to neatsfoot oil by my father who stressed that it was used to soften stiff items,
and to keep that leather pliant. I have used neatsfoot a couple of times on leather workgloves and they turned out limp as rags.
It also didn't do anything for waterproofing. My own thought then would be to use neatsfoot oil only if I had some piece I needed to bring back to life or keep particularly supple. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that if neatsfoot oil were used to shape a leather item, that the item would turnout too formless or shapeless. Just my 2 cents......

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Cliff Fendley]

I would use water to reshape as desired, then oil with neatsfoot and condition with lexol or skidmores as necessary.

[Skeeter Lewis]

(Extra virgin) olive oil is fine when used in moderation. It's been used for centuries.

[Mogorilla]

In a former life, I was a food based oil chemist.  All vegetable oils will go rancid, this is actually the formation of peroxide bonds that will form free radicals.  In the case of extra virgin olive oil, it is a cold pressed oil, meaning no heat was applied to the olives.   Each successive grade of oil employs harsher means to extract more oil.  Problem is, heating oil decreases its life.  So, of all the vegetable oils to use, extra virgin olive oil should have one of the longest shelf lives.  I believe Neatsfoot oil is produced from cattle hooves.

Skeeter is correct, both have been used for centuries and if you are using the leather quite regularly, I honestly think the oil will evaporate long before it goes rancid.   I use both.   I also make a paste of equal parts neatsfoot oil, extra virgin olive oil, and bees wax.  I heat the neatsfoot oil just enough to thoroughly melt the wax, then stir in the olive oil.  It makes a soft paste that will condition and water proof.  I have some on the shelf for ~1.5 years and still good (once you know the smell of rancid oil, you can detect it pretty quickly).   

I am 99.9% sure the Egyptians were using olive oil on their tooled leather as far back as King Tut, so it has historical context.  (some great tooled leather dog collars found in Egyptian tombs if you have strong Google-fu to find them).  .

Also, I think key here is moderation.  Yes, a large amount of oil will soak/saturate your leather and can cause problems like misshaping.  I look at it like my father's description of a belt sander, a great tool that can help, or damage something almost beyond recovery.   Apply in small doses and use patience. 

[Graveyard Jack]

While I have not had any personal experience, . . . and don't want to learn the hard way, . . . I picked up somewhere that olive oil will turn rancid after a good period of time, . . . and that would not be a good thing,

You heard wrong. It's been used for centuries and a good many makers much more experienced than myself continue to use extra virgin olive oil. While it 'may' eventually go rancid in long term storage, it's not going to go rancid in your leather.

That said, I would be using water to stretch and form leather, not oil.

[River City John]

Thank you all for sharing.

RCJ

[Cliff Fendley]

I believe Neatsfoot oil is produced from cattle hooves.

Actually I believe it is the feet and shins of cattle, not the hooves that are rendered. Not sure there is much oil in a hoof anyway.

[Slowhand Bob]

My preference was neatsfoot oil BUT accept that there are more than a few opinions on what is best.  As best as I can tell the only opinion that you need to be careful of is the one that trys to enhance his opinions by destroying others!  Many years ago it was common amongst many of the largest and most prestigious museums to use neatsfoot oil as a preservative 'ONLY' but at some point of leather deterioration it starts to do more harm than good.  At some point I lost my list of references to the museum articles and when I went back to research them again, the product used had changed to a newer commercial blend.  No matter what you use, moderation is  the key.  Yes I did ruin some nice old baseball loves in the 50's and early 60's by over-saturating them with neatsfoot oil in the misguided notion that it would create an ideal ball pocket.   After a few lessons from an old leather worker in the early 60's I came to learn how to use oil in moderation and actually have a holster I made shortly later that still has good body and none of the rotten thread that many mud slingers proclaim to plague the users of neatsfoot oil!  For over ten years I have been using Ballistol on my personal leather with satisfactory results, but would I recommend it to other or even use it on leather made by me for someone else?  Shux no, it aint no leather product until somebody smarter than me can produce better evidence to the contrary!  I do use and recommend neatsfoot oil as a good treatment oil when properly used but no longer think it is the best but neither do I think that title belongs to olive oil.  Do the research and find what is used by professional leather preservationists.

PS:  A search might turn up a post on this same subject by Chuck Burrows and he had some great thoughts and opinions expressed.

[Trailrider]

For over forty years I have used nothing but Lexol Leather Conditioner on my leather products! While Lexol does contain some Neatsfoot oil, it has other ingrediants that negate the bad features of straight Neatsfoot oil, which alone will eventually destroy the fibers of the leather. Neatsfoot oil works on the hooves of horses and cattle because, like your finger and toenails, hooves are regenerating tissue. Tanned leather is not. Even with Lexol, it is best not to overdo the application. I have seen a leather belt I made for a customer that was ruined because he saturated the leather with it.  I generally apply a light spray on the surface and then wipe off any excess with a soft cloth. I live in a dry climate, yet I only treat my own leather gear about once or twice a year, depending on whether the leather looks dry. OTOH, if the leather has been wet due to rain or snow exposure, I will allow it to dry at room temperature, followed by a light application of Lexol.

Others may disagree, but this has been my experience.

[dwight55]

While I do not set out to learn something new every day, . . . I count it a better day if I do.

Thank you folks for the "olive oil" information, . . . looks like I'm going to be playing with a new ingredient, . . . 

May God bless,
Dwight

[Cliff Fendley]

I've never had any luck getting Pure Neatsfoot oil to soften high quality leather to the point it will mold or stretch even when I've tested and tried it.

Yes it will turn some leather into a dish rag and even make belly leather more "stretchy" but not the heavy firm skirting leather that I use on most projects.

John Bianchi in his holster making video actually submerges an entire belt and holster in a vat of Neatsfoot oil at the end of the project. I don't go that far but I do oil my rigs pretty heavy with Pure Neatsfoot oil on completion.

[Graveyard Jack]

John Bianchi in his holster making video actually submerges an entire belt and holster in a vat of Neatsfoot oil at the end of the project.

Yep! I think that makes a pretty good rebuttal for all those who think you should never oil leather.

[ChuckBurrows]

FWIW - the majority of modern made Neatsfoot oil is based on finely rendered hog lard since the 1930's. Originally it was cold processed oil using the front legs of cattle (neat is an old term for cattle) and the oil was allowed to drip. By the mid-1700's it was still considered neats' foot oil when made from heat rendered feet, hooves and leg bones.

And again neat's foot oil was not designed as am oil for hooves - it was originally designed for use as a super fine oil to be used on gun locks and for leather care - that's the actual history.

Most problems folks have with neat's foot oil is they apply it cold and too heavily. Warm to about 90°F and apply in a VERY thin coat. Allow to "dry" overnight and the oil will usually balance out across the leather. Apply other coats only as needed.

BTW - John Bianchi's video on holster making holsters shows him warming the neat's foot in a special container and dipping the completed holster in the warm oil. I use a deep pan and an electric hot plate to warm oil

[Blair]

ChuckBurrows,

Well stated!!!!

Domestic cattle were referred to as "Neat Cattle" in a generic historical manor. This is a very old term, and includes all forms of domestic livestock.
Hide clue was one of many products rendered from "Neat" livestock after the slater and butchering.  Leather, Lard, Soap and Glue.
The process of refining "neat" Glue produced a very fine oil that served very well as a leather dressing and later as a fine gun oil.
My best,
Blair 

[Cliff Fendley]

I keep some pure neatsfoot oil in a glass jar and to warm it I put it in the shop oven on warm for a few minutes with the oven door open in the winter time.

During the warmer months I just sit the jar outside or in the unairconditioned part of the shop. Whatever means necessary to get the oil in the 90 degree range.

I don't dip mine in the oil, I apply the oil with a soft rag. I tried the John Bianci method of dipping in warm oil but felt like it was too much.

[Johnny McCrae]

Many thanks for the tip about warming up the Neet's Foot Oil before applying it.

[Massive]

- The problem with all the advice is that there isn't any such thing as neatsfoot oil or olive oil.  As others have said there are highly variable products that go by those names.  You can buy stuff by those names and get entirely different results.  For instance is your vitamins added anti-oxidant olive oil the same as what was around in Egyptian times.  It is getting tougher to trust edible oils as the industry is under so much diet related pressure. 

- I agree strongly with the advice that one form leather with water, or force, but not with gunk.  At least unknown gunk.  I guess I would use Tandy neatsfoot, because I know it dries and gets stable.  But in practice I form with water, and finish with the oil. If you introduce a liquid that softens leather and remains present in it, that will not be a stable combination, unless you have done your homework and know how it turns out.  We pay good money to get veg tan leathers that will do structural work, like hold up pants, allow us to sit horses, and retain our firearms.  To just randomly loosen them up is like hitting your wheel bearings with a sledge to get them looser and more free moving.

-  Normally supple friendly leathers are chrome tanned, and they do not readily absorb oils so there isn't much point in using them to affect them deeply.

As Chuck points out, Bianchi does fully saturate his leather with Tandy oil in the video, and then lets it weep and dry.  I personally wouldn't try that with olive oil, and nothing illustrates the difference better.  Basically I want a drying oil.