First cleaning 1873 Uberti/Cimarron Carbine 45LC

[Smokindog]

I just picked up an 1873 Uberti/Cimarron carbine with saddle ring in 45LC to go with my 1873 El Patron.

As I do with all new firearms, I took it to the bench to give it a good cleaning.  Well I started with standard screw drivers that aren't exact fits to the slots and couldn't get ANY of the screws to budge (side plate and spring screws).  I suspected LocTite or something so I called the nice folks in Fredericksburg and the gentleman told me that it's a common complaint.  No LocTitie, just really tight screws.

I've been looking around for the "proper and exact" screw drivers/bits and saw the various sets available at Midway, Brownells, ...  for $60 and up.  I bought a small set (Otters or something) from Walmart and one bit is thin enough to fit the slot but not quite edge to edge.

Anyone answering this will understand that the slots are narrow and deep.

I have some screw drivers I won't mind grinding to fit but I first wanted to know what others have done to initially break these screws free without damage.

Also, I don't mind spending money on the right tool if I l knew exactly what I needed.  I really don't care for driver bits but will buy them if they'll do the job (Dad was a 50 year tool and die guy, "Bits are for toys, not machines")!!!!

HELP, I've got a new gun that I can't use because I insist on cleaning it first

OH, thanks for letting me join you're forum!

[Major 2]

I got my set from Cylinder & Slide, 10 hollow grind drivers made for the Uberti line $60

[August]

The four Brownell's bits I use with the '73 are as follows.

360-3  Magazine tube plug
300-3  Tang Through Screw and wood screw for stock
210-4  Side Plates, Lever, Bottom Tang screws
180-3  Lifter & Lever spring screws

And, the hollow grip armorer's length handle, which will hold these four bits if you keep one of them in the driver and put three in the handle.  Never leave home without it!

( BTW, I keep bit #210-4 in the driver as it is the only bit needed for all of the screws on Ruger Vaqueros.)

But, getting the gun apart the first time can be nearly impossible.  An impact wrench helps.  But, to be on the safe side, it's a good idea to have a magazine plug and lifter/lever screws on hand before you begin -- just in case.  So, when you order your Brownell's bits and handle, order those two screws and the plug at the same time.  

[Smokindog]

Do you have a product ID or link?  I went to their site and could not locate the drivers you reference.

I got my set from Cylinder & Slide, 10 hollow grind drivers made for the Uberti line $60

[Major 2]

I bought mine from Bill at the 2007 Shot Show.... I'd contact them

[Smokindog]

THX, this is extremely helpful.  Brownells makes you dif to find out what's in the sets.  I also looked through Wheeler sets from another recommendation but they make it even more difficult to determine sizes and it appears they are chinese product.

The magna-tip appear to come with a lifetime warranty and at $3 per bit, not too expensive, and US made.  I don't see anything special about their driver handle.  I've got a couple around here if the bits are "standard".  Also have a decent quality mini-ratchet for screw bits that I'll try before going full out impact wrench.  I can also pick up handles much cheaper at HD or Lowes if need be.  Anything particularly unique about their handles?

Except for the spring screws, Brownells is out of stock on the parts you recommend plus the side plate screw.

Any opinion on VTIgunParts.com?

The four Brownell's bits I use with the '73 are as follows.

360-3  Magazine tube plug
300-3  Tang Through Screw and wood screw for stock
210-4  Side Plates, Lever, Bottom Tang screws
180-3  Lifter & Lever spring screws

And, the hollow grip armorer's length handle, which will hold these four bits if you keep one of them in the driver and put three in the handle.  Never leave home without it!

( BTW, I keep bit #210-4 in the driver as it is the only bit needed for all of the screws on Ruger Vaqueros.)

But, getting the gun apart the first time can be nearly impossible.  An impact wrench helps.  But, to be on the safe side, it's a good idea to have a magazine plug and lifter/lever screws on hand before you begin -- just in case.  So, when you order your Brownell's bits and handle, order those two screws and the plug at the same time.  

[Smokindog]

Is this perhaps the set?  I've sent an email to ask about the sizes included

I bought mine from Bill at the 2007 Shot Show.... I'd contact them

[Major 2]

Can't see what you are referring to...

Mine came in a canvas roll, they are hand ground @ C&S ... at the time I bought the 10 piece set , and 3 piece set for Colt

These have handled every need on other guns as well.... 

[Coffinmaker]

OK!!  Time Out!!  I don't care what kind of screwdriver you buy, barrow, rent or steal.  Your not going to get most of the screws out of a Uberti built rifle with just the screwdrivers.  Ain't gonna happen.  You must remember BONGO.  Bongo is Uberti's tame Gorilla, trained to go 'round at night, tightening screws.  The solution:

You may not like "bits" but get that Screwey Idea smooth out of your head.  Bits, hollow ground to fit screw slots are the "perfect" tool.
However, to get the screws out the first time, you will need an "Impact Driver" to release the screws.  Available from Brownells, Harbor Freight, Lowes, Home Depot....... take your pick.  3/8 drive preferable but you will need to fit a 1/4 inch socket to fit the "bits."  Do not be too surprised if you manage to twist off a bit on some screws.  They really are that tight.

For the lever side screws, I also recommend removing the side plates, then pushing the springs out of the receiver to take the tension off the screws.  If it's a '66, be careful pushing the springs out as you'll likely scratch the side of the frame where you can see it.

Oh, you'll really have fun with the magazine plug 

Coffinmaker

[Smokindog]

Sorry, guess I forgot to paste the link (and now in retrospect I see you mentioned a 10 driver set that doesn't seem to be listed at grace's website).

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/621146/grace-usa-8-piece-gunsmith-screwdriver-set?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I was heading out to Cabelas as they also had this set but the measurements don't fit the sizes posted by August.

With all the tools I've purchased over the years and inherited from my dad, I never thought I'd be in this dilemma

I still can't believe such a well known problem hasn't been corrected by Uberti. I mean, even the guy at Cabelas knew of the tight screws on Ubertis!   

Can't see what you are referring to...

Mine came in a canvas roll, they are hand ground @ C&S ... at the time I bought the 10 piece set , and 3 piece set for Colt

These have handled every need on other guns as well.... 

[Abilene]

I have the small impact driver from Harbor Freight, and I have needed it a couple of times, but most of the time I have been able to break loose the screws on new Uberti rifles without it.  With the rifle supported upside down in a cradle (for the screws on the bottom) or on a padded bench on its side, I hold the proper screwdriver into the slot and give the butt of the screwdriver a couple of good wacks with a hammer.  Then lean my weight into the screw while slowly turning.  Like I said, this usually works, but I'm glad to have the impact driver when it doesn't work.

[August]

 Anything particularly unique about their handles?

Any opinion on VTIgunParts.com?

Yes, Brownell's handles are manufactured and sold by a company that provides endless support to shooters and the shooting sports.  They have regularly been sponsors of the National and World championships of Cowboy Action Shooting. 

VTI is good to go.  Maria, who runs VTI is Aldo Uberti's daughter.  They have always provided good service in my experience.

[Smokindog]

August,  I want to thank you for all your replies.  You've been VERY helpful.  I don't see anyway to acknowledge that on this board (likes, kudos, ...).

I've found out my neighbor has these two sets

• 080-112-081WB - 58 Bit Master Set Plus w/ #81 Handle
• 080-454-000WB - Fixed-Blade Gunsmith's Screwdriver Super Master Set

Now I can see/get what I want

BTW - the side-plate screw measures out to .240 x .035 (I ground down a screw driver to fit just for fun ).  I'm wondering if the screw has changed or if you just got the 210-4 tip (.210x.035) to work for you?

Yes, Brownell's handles are manufactured and sold by a company that provides endless support to shooters and the shooting sports.  They have regularly been sponsors of the National and World championships of Cowboy Action Shooting.  

VTI is good to go.  Maria, who runs VTI is Aldo Uberti's daughter.  They have always provided good service in my experience.

[August]

Howdy, again:

The 210-4 bit is, as I said, my "go to" bit.  It works on all the side plate, lever, and bottom tang screws on all four of my 1873, Uberti rifles and on all of the screws on all six of my Ruger New Vaqueros.  If I do my part, it does not bugger the slots.

Hope I've responded to your question in the vein you intended.

All the best,

A.W.

[Smokindog]

I'm very grateful for your responses.  You set me on course for my solution because I was lost on which screw drivers or bits to even think about using.  It's how I found out my neighbor had what I needed   I guess I would have eventually gotten there but ,........

Once I got a good fixed blade driver with a palm sized grip of the right size, I was able to break Guido's screw free.   Right tool for the right job and the force/torque gets properly transferred to the screw

Howdy, again:

The 210-4 bit is, as I said, my "go to" bit.  It works on all the side plate, lever, and bottom tang screws on all four of my 1873, Uberti rifles and on all of the screws on all six of my Ruger New Vaqueros.  If I do my part, it does not bugger the slots.

Hope I've responded to your question in the vein you intended.

All the best,

A.W.

[Mike]

So why do the do them up so tight?... are they frighten they are going to fall out during the shipping from Italy.
The screws are also so soft that most have to be dressed before going back into the gun. My next gun a Steel framed Henry is going to be striped before i pick it up from the dealer importer, he can then order a new set of screws for it. I have a new 73 carbine which still wont come apart, i bent a screw driver head trying the other day. I am looking for a few  good quality screw drivers to stone to size just for the Uberti guns i have.
It is about time Uberti started reading a few threads.

[Smokindog]

Oh they know about it, at least the Cimarron importer in TX does and the Uberti support folks in VA do.  They both made jokes about it when I called.

So why do the do them up so tight?... are they frighten they are going to fall out during the shipping from Italy.
The screws are also so soft that most have to be dressed before going back into the gun. My next gun a Steel framed Henry is going to be striped before i pick it up from the dealer importer, he can then order a new set of screws for it. I have a new 73 carbine which still wont come apart, i bent a screw driver head trying the other day. I am looking for a few  good quality screw drivers to stone to size just for the Uberti guns i have.
It is about time Uberti started reading a few threads.

[Bibbyman]

I don't have a Uberti rifle but I have a Marlin 1894 that was made in 1907 that I'm sure I was the first one to turn a screw on it other than the leaver screw.  All came out with some reasonable effort but the one that holds the carrier.  No mortal effort was going to budge it.  I kept applying BlueCreeper on it and trying it ever so often and reapplying another drop. It finally broke loose. 

http://www.bluecreeper.com/

[Mike]

Got the 73 apart today with out bugvering a screw, the two lever/lifter springs needed polishing but everything else ok . So put the screws back in and yes one spring screw got chewed so had to re work that.

[Coffinmaker]

Da De Da De Da...... Here I are again.  Just like a bad penny.  You just can't get rid of me 
First ......
August,
Maria Uberti has no connection to VTI Gunparts.  When Uberti was "acquired" there was a no competition agreement and "Uberti USA" ceased to exist.  Maria went home.  Lisa, the gal who current runs VTI, established VTI and owns it lock, stock and barrel.
Next,
Uberti has known forever about what we consider over-tight screws.  Their assembly procedures result in the over-tight screws and they (Uberti) don't care.  It's just the way they do it.
I built competition guns out of Uberti products for well over 16 years.  I learned how to take em apart.  The screws are only a problem the first time they come out.  After that, they're just fine.  Provided you use the right kind of screwdrivers that FIT!!  If you wish, VTI also offers hardened screw sets.  Just remember, over tightening hardened screws will cause them to crystalize at the stress point and snap off.
Lots of folks over tighten gun screws.  Not good.  Too much torque does not help with screws that shoot (vibrate) loose.  Torque is not your friend.  Blue or Purple LocTite is your friend.  Drop of blue and hand tight is sufficient.
Tube magazine rifles from Uberti come with RUST in the mag tube.  It's free, they don't even charge for it   Good idea to take your mag tube plug out as soon as possible and scrub out the mag tube.  Then lube it.  I suggest Boshield (developed by Boeing) to clean out the mag tube and to lube it.  Dries like wax, does not attract dust and crud.

Coffinmaker