Help on a rig

[Red Cent]

I have an order for a CFDA rig. Nothing really difficult..................except he wants a Clint Eastwood rig. Rough out. No gunfighter stitching but rough out. I have never attempted a rough out. Where do I start with the rough out?

[Camano Ridge]

Red for the most part the belt construction is the same as any other tappered end belt. The difference is the rough side out. You can do that two different ways. You can use suede glued and stitched to veg tanned so that the suede will be on the outside. Or if you have a piece of veg tanned with a nice nap again the construction is the same just with the nap on the outside. THe trick is when cutting to make sure you orient the cut so the nap side will be out. Hopefully that addresses your question.

[Red Cent]

Actually, I thought it was much more difficult coming up with a nice even looking rough out look.

Is there a certain vendor, type of leather, certain cut to get that would normally have a good nap?

[Trailrider]

Can't say of a vendor that you could order from long distance. If you have a Tandy/Leather Factory store near you, you could just go look a various pieces of leather. Stick with veg-tanned leather where it will contact the gun. You might find a nice piece of cowhide that has the flesh side pretty slick. Wet the flesh side (which will be the outside), and rough it up with coarse sandpaper.

[Red Cent]

TrailRider, Zack White is about 40 minutes from the house. I don't have the correct color of suede nor do I have leather that I would use for rough out. I need some supplies so I will make the trip as soon as the ice and snow goes away.

I use nothing but veg tanned.

http://www.redcentcustomleather.com/

[dwight55]

I've never had any problem with any of the rough outs I have made, . . . all I did was screw my head on backwards so that the flesh side of the leather was out in stead of the hair side.

Don't over think it, . . . it really ain't complicated.

The only thing I did make sure I did on this one, . . . the inside of the belt was the hair side, . . . so when I glued the two together, . . . the outside piece glued hair side to the inside piece flesh side. 

I don't make cowboy gun belts that are not two piece, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

[Slowhand Bob]

A lot of the high end products appear to be sewn in such a way as might indicate that they are lined with a separate layer.  I have made a number of the ruff-outs but always used one layer of extra heavy leather and was not duplicating the Italian western patterns.  I never looked for a nice tight flesh side as I was going for a very rustic look and low price line!!!  A google search of spaghetti western rig images returned lots of pictures.

[brenn]

I'm not the greatest expert, but I have made a rough out holster and mag pouch set.  I like it because having a smooth side in makes for a better draw and it's easier to do one layer, rough side out, than laminating 2 layers so it's smooth inside and out.

One thing I recall seeing at Tandy is a tool for roughing the flesh side of the leather, so it has a smooth, even look, like suede.  But I can't remember what the tool is called.  Maybe ask at a leather store.

With that tool and some leather around 8-10 oz. (if it's a western holster) it should be pretty easy.

[Massive]

Do we know how they were actually built.  Suede was pretty popular back in that period.

[Red Cent]

I am planning on using suede. I usually use an 8-9 outer and a 5-6 liner. I use an 8-9 outer and 3-4 liner for the belt. I will add a very light suede over the belt and holster and also line the belt with suede and leave off the 3-4 liner. These are Cowboy Fast Draw Association rigs. We just stand there and try to be fast

[Biscuit Joe]

I just use sand paper to raise and even out the rough out side. Usually by hand.
But I have used my belt sander on pieces. I used 600 grit paper to get a nice smooth even rough out.

[Red Cent]

Well, I finished the rig. Kinda. As I was sewing up the fold, it occurred to me "do I wet mold this thing as usual?". The NM Vaquero goes in really snug with the holster dry. But I need/have to over mold the holster to allow the gun to be cocked in the holster. I have a 1st gen Vaquero mold gun in the mail to accomplish that. The 1st gen is bigger than a Colt or NM Vaquero and should provide the looseness that the holster needs. Has anyone soaked a "hide back"? 3-4 ounce beautiful leather with a "suede" appearance on the back (roughout).

[Camano Ridge]

Red, your holster is no different then any unlined holster you have built except you built this one inside out. You can wet and mold like normal. The thing to be careful of is to use only your hands to press and mold. Do not rub the rough out will burnish easily and it will be quite noticeable.

[Red Cent]

Thanks Camano. I won't need to do hand forming. I need the wet to conform to the mold gun and I want to fan/heat dry the leather to make it rock hard.

[Red Cent]

Finished the holster. What a pain in the.......................
The belt has suede on both sides and does not need/accept the usual burnishing. The holster is....is......impossible to burnish. Thinking about the holster, I need to use a drum dyed piece of leather next time  so it does not need the typical burnishing methods. I used 8-9 for the outer, 3-4 for the liner, and the hide back (3-4) for the rough out. Too bulky.
I need to discover a piece of leather that has the acceptable "rough out" look in about an 8-9 or a 5-6 to offset the liner. Then the two ply would be more "workable".
How about some of the more experienced leatherworkers pitch in here to help an old holster maker do it better next time.

[dwight55]

Well, . . . I don't make a bunch of them, . . . but never had one come back yet, except the one it took me 90 days to make.  He took it home and came back the next day saying it was too small (it was I think a 53 inch belt).  I added 3 inches to the tongue, . . .  .  Methinks he slept too close to the doughnut box,....................

But anyway, . . . when I do a rough out, . . . the only thing I do different is when I make the cutouts for the holster itself.  Usually, I cut the outside piece, . . . then flip my pattern over, . . . and cut the inside piece, . . . so I can glue em together, . . . flesh side to flesh side.

On these, . . . I cut out two inside pieces, . . . and they get glued flesh side to hair side, . . . everything else is done exactly the same way as I do the others. 

Like I said, . . . never had any trouble with them.  They sew, . . . burnish, . . . mold, . . . dye, . . . everything the exact same way.

May God bless,
Dwight

[Massive]

I'd like to see a picture?  But I understand if it already flew the coup.

[Red Cent]

Belt is 2 pieces of 3-4 "hide back" with an 8-9 in between plus the 8-9 "belt" on the outside. Surprisingly supple and easy to strap on.
This is the third holster. One piece of 8-9 for liner and a 3-4 piece of hide back. Hide back is the term used when they described it. I was shopping for suede but I bought a full side of the hide back. The holster was formed for CFDA (cock in the holster) then put in oven wet. Stiff.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Very nice work, Red. Thumbs up.

[Slye]

Nice job good rig
so long red cent