Cap-and-Ball Revolver Projectile Lubricants

[Don Kenna]

There has been much speculation, both here and in other forums, as to what sort of projectile lubricant, if any, was used in our forbears' cap-and-ball revolvers.  I would imagine that someone in the recent past has dissected one or more of the old combustible cartridges to see if any effort at projectile lubrication was present.  A beeswax disk, perhaps?

I'm pretty certain the old timers did not smear anything like Crisco or any other soft grease over the cylinder's chamber mouths.  I've only done that (with Wonder Lube) once, on a hot day in Oklahoma.  Once was enough, and carrying a revolver so-loaded in a holster for more than a few minutes would be out of the question, as the over chamber lubrications would liquefy in short order.

I can believe that some of the original users dripped a bit of candle wax on top of the seated projectiles.  That would at least do much to waterproof the charges if nothing else.

Virtually all of my cap-and-ball revolver shooting has employed loads using lubricated felt wads over the powder charges.  This has always worked well for me, and a revolver so loaded could be carried in a holster.  I suspect that this loading technique has been used considerably longer than most have assumed.  Elmer Keith was doing so about 1912 or thereabouts (see his book, Sixguns).  Even with such a loading technique, however, I do wonder whether the wad's lubricant would eventually and significantly contaminate the powder charge.

I really am wondering.

Your comments?

[rifle]

Look for the "Original Loading instructions" that were in the box of a new cap&ball revolver. Washcut wadding or patch is what the instructions say to put on the powder and pushed down by the plunger so as not to hinder rotation of the cylinder.

Wash cut wadding or patch? I'd say put there only so powder wasn't spilled from the chambers while loading the ball "pointed side up". (infers conicals)

It doesn't say anything about loading a wax/lube disc on the powder just the stuff called washcut wadding or patch. It seems to infer the stuff was cut to fit the chambers.

Anywhoooo.....the Original loading instructions were in the wood box that the new revolver came in and Dixie Gun Works sells that or used to sell that I guess to make a revolvers wood cased set complete.

Elmer Kieth seems to infer he was taught to load the Navy Colt by veterans of the Civil War and....he used the wool felt wads soaked in some tallow. 
I'd thunk......that the revolers were loaded a certain way for target shooting and another for carrying for defense or Military use. I'd say if a lube wad was set on the powder where as it may be in there while carrying for a time period in weather and all the lubed wad whould be stiff with bees wax and not a lot of lube. You know.... a lubed wad that would not leach into the powder.

Can you imagine Wild Bill Hickok making lube pills in the upstairs room of a "House of Ill Repute"? His revolvers were said to be consistant like when people watched him show off hitting small targets still or moving and never miss. He had to be managing the fouling somehow or the powder he used didn't foul his revolvers. He probably invented "Big Lube Bullets" and kept the secrete from everyone so his guns were the best shooting because there was soft fouling so the guns kept shooting well. 


I've read of Folks  using hornets nest material to set on powder so a lubed patch in a rifle would not let lube into the powder. If that was common back in the day then it may have been used to top the powder before a lubed wad of some sort was set under the ball. The hornets nest there to keep any lube from getting in the powder.Hornets nest is said to not burn when used like that.

I'm inferring that there were lots of ways the Hombre back in the day loaded their revolvers. The same as today. Why would anything be different today then it was back in the day?
Folks do what they want and what they deem proper. Different loading proceedures individuals carried out then as today.

I would thunk that anyone depending on the revolvers to defend their life and limbs would figger a reliable way to load that would be best. Probably some loading without any lube or wads or anything that would hinder reliability of the guns. Some doing the same but with some sort of wad saturated with wax/lube they knew would not hinder the powder ignition.

There were probably lots of Hombre that went to "pushin up daisies" because their revolver was not tended to properly. You know.....lube leaching into the powder making a squib load bouncing off a persons coat or powder rendered useless by condensation going from a fridgid weather outdoors into a nice warm saloon or House of Ill Repute or nice warm cabin or tent or whatever. You know....a cold gun hitting warm air makes condensation even inside the barrels or chambers so the powder gets wet under the caps.

I'd say everything imaginable was done to the guns and with the guns just like today. Barrels cut short, loads done a certain way,or revolvers customized some way or another or loading technics done as an individual thought was the best way. Just like today.

Everything we do today was probably done "back in the day" first.  Therefore any danged thing anyone today does could be said to be as the "originals" were done. Somebody back then did what someone does today.

[Noz]

The loading instructions from the 1850-60s from Colt says. Pour in powder press ball onto power, cap, fire.

My experience is that a lubed wad (I use a black powder bullet lube) keeps the Colt styles running through 50 to 60 shots with no binding. Good enough for me.  I would not use a soft lube.
The wad also takes up a little room giving you the option,if you so desire, of shooting a lesser charge.

Lube over, lube under or naked, your choice

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Don,

There are Three bullets that answer the C&B bullet lube question.  They are the EPP-UG, EPP-36 and DD/PUK Flat.  All are genuine Big Lube®LLC designs.  These bullets are lube/sized and loaded directly on the powder charge.  They carry all the lube your gun can use.  On Remington 58s the copious lube washes over the cylinder base pin so that they just don't foul out.

So, when dry balls need greased wads, over powder smears or other accouterments, these three bullets do not.  The lube is captive in the generous lube grove and released upon firing.

DD-MDA

[Roosterman]

Howdy Don,

There are Three bullets that answer the C&B bullet lube question.  They are the EPP-UG, EPP-36 and DD/PUK Flat.  All are genuine Big Lube®LLC designs.  These bullets are lube/sized and loaded directly on the powder charge.  They carry all the lube your gun can use.  On Remington 58s the copious lube washes over the cylinder base pin so that they just don't foul out.

So, when dry balls need greased wads, over powder smears or other accouterments, these three bullets do not.  The lube is captive in the generous lube grove and released upon firing.


DD-MDA

The question was how the old timers did it Dick, not how many cool bullet designs you sell that the old timers never had.. Never miss a chance for a sale I guess. How much stock do you have to own on this board to run constant product promotion? Never seen anything like it, give it a rest.

[rifle]

Howdy NOZ!

I have seen that what you is tallking about and figgered that was the way Colt said to do it.

This morning I was looking fer that and Googled up "original loading instructions for Colt revolvers".

Some Original SCRIPT (some sort of manual) instructions for loading the Colts came up posted on the High Road and The Firing Line and pictures of the original "whatever it is" also.

Makin it short(you can Google what I did and read the whole thing) it says put the powder in the chamber and then put in the bullet pointed side up or washcut wadding or patch and then turn the cylinder to use the loading lever to stomp it down.



Apparently there are two instructions from Colt and two ways to load the chambers one with no wads and one with.

[cheatin charlie]

If you blow up the original instructions it says "without wadding or patch"

somebody made a mistake retyping the instructions ! OOPS

[Lucky R. K.]

The question was how the old timers did it Dick, not how many cool bullet designs you sell that the old timers never had.. Never miss a chance for a sale I guess. How much stock do you have to own on this board to run constant product promotion? Never seen anything like it, give it a rest.

I'm with Roosterman on this one. I shoot a pair of 1858's using Dick's bullets and there is NO way they will shoot a match without some attention. Remington's design with the front of the cylinder in line with the barrel guaranteed that fouling would be blown into the cylinder pin hole. To fix that problem I did what Ruger did with the Old Armies. I milled a bit of metal from the frame and put in cylinder bushings. Problem solved.

Also like Roosterman, I am tired of Dick's commericals.  He has a good product but he just needs to stop the sales pitch.

Lucky

[Tsalagidave]

I've fired cap & ball for 25 years now and handled quite a few original rounds. I even make combustible rounds using an original conical mould. To everything I've researched, I have never come across any evidence of an integrated patch or wad on the factory made combustible envelope rounds.

Also, I never cover my tubes in gloppy, messy grease because I trek and shoot in the desert and all that stuff acts like a sand magnet. Its a great way to ruin a barrel or even possibly blow it up. On a sloppy note, I have been out in +108 temperatures that would liquefy the grease blobs and create one hell of a mess running out the bottom of your holster. I noticed that on some of the Colt m1855 revolving carbines, there is actually an integrated oil dispenser that will allow a drop or two onto the tip of the loaded round so that it will settle into the groove between the lead and the tube's wall. I took my lead from this.

When I load up for the trail, I load about 25g of FFF under a dry felt patch and seat a round ball and firmly seated caps. No grease & no oil. In my kit, I carry a couple of packages of 6 x .36 conicals in combustible envelope. When It comes to shooting the combustibles, I ram them down and put 1-2 drops of fine shooting oil on the tips. They settle into the groove and with firm-seated caps, I haven't experienced a chain fire.  I've done this for more than 20 years and fired thousands of round through many pistols without a mishap. 

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Personally i appreciate the information DD gives. i have recently started shooting more HOLY BLACK to make my dwindling supply of the heathen powder last for my daughters guns.

Information and a bullet mold from DD has been a great help and where else to find such information and products then here?

In a change of subject for new BP shooters if you will search "Mako" and read his informative posting on BP lubes and why and how they work.
it is worth the time and effort.

Where is Steel Horse Bailey, Lou Graham, and what happened to Open Range?

Respectfully submitted
Bunk

[Bruce W Sims]

Hi, Folks:

Just wanted to say that up until about 1870, some 90% of the American population were rural.

I mention this historical tidbit because we may forget how much the history of the era these guns are associated with relied on experience, word-of-mouth, trial-and-error and what was at hand. For me, personnally I enjoy the challenge of doing things in the way they were done generations back. I also know that I have the advantage of picking experienced people's brains over the INTERNET, have synthetic materials to use and not having to depend on my knowledge base to keep body and soul together.

Not meaning to offend anyone, but sometimes I wonder how much gun behaviors depended on putting 2+2 together. For instance,
I get that there were instructions with the pistol. I also know that many folks who bought pistols were illiterate. I also guess that even if folks COULD read, they could also fall prey to the same tendency we modern folks have of thinking I know better than the instructions. Of course, that attitude leads to cutting corners and then its all downhill from there.

I'm thinking that a guy with a BP revolver probably was told that grease or fat across the cylinder what cut the chances of cross-fire. Later it was noticed that the fat made cleaning the gun easier. After that it was a matter of putting the fat behind the ball or conical to cut down on mess. But I'm thinking this had a lot more to do with personal experience and shared wisdom than with any sort of truly scientific approach. I know that speaking for myself, I would be perfectly happy shooting balls out of my piece, but I read where conicals would be uniformly more accurate so I'll try 'em. Didn't read that in a manual somewhere. It was right here in one of these threads. Anyhow...thats my own 2 cents.....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[PJ Hardtack]

Two years ago one of my possee was shooting a pair of Uberti Walkers. I was loading my Remingtons and noticed that he hadn't applied any over ball lube. He told me that he never did.

He didn't have any chain fires and didn't foul out. Go figure .....

Little tip - if your paws get contaminated with bullet lube, use some of that alcoholic hand cleaner. I carry a dispenser of it in my kit.

[Roosterman]

Personally i appreciate the information DD gives. i have recently started shooting more HOLY BLACK to make my dwindling supply of the heathen powder last for my daughters guns.

Information and a bullet mold from DD has been a great help and where else to find such information and products then here?

In a change of subject for new BP shooters if you will search "Mako" and read his informative posting on BP lubes and why and how they work.
it is worth the time and effort.

Where is Steel Horse Bailey, Lou Graham, and what happened to Open Range?

Respectfully submitted
Bunk

Maybe he could PURCHASE AN ADD   on the board and you could find his products that way, just like other sponsors . I wonder how long I could work in my products and services into every post i could with out being asked to stop. It's just plain tiresome, especially all this registered trade mark and LLC business......
I have used Big Lube bullets @trademark LLC...etc..... They work fine for cowboy action, I just tire of having to read about them somewhere on every topic.

[Tsalagidave]

Hi, Folks:

Just wanted to say that up until about 1870, some 90% of the American population were rural.

I mention this historical tidbit because we may forget how much the history of the era these guns are associated with relied on experience, word-of-mouth, trial-and-error and what was at hand. For me, personnally I enjoy the challenge of doing things in the way they were done generations back. I also know that I have the advantage of picking experienced people's brains over the INTERNET, have synthetic materials to use and not having to depend on my knowledge base to keep body and soul together.

Not meaning to offend anyone, but sometimes I wonder how much gun behaviors depended on putting 2+2 together. For instance,
I get that there were instructions with the pistol. I also know that many folks who bought pistols were illiterate. I also guess that even if folks COULD read, they could also fall prey to the same tendency we modern folks have of thinking I know better than the instructions. Of course, that attitude leads to cutting corners and then its all downhill from there.

I'm thinking that a guy with a BP revolver probably was told that grease or fat across the cylinder what cut the chances of cross-fire. Later it was noticed that the fat made cleaning the gun easier. After that it was a matter of putting the fat behind the ball or conical to cut down on mess. But I'm thinking this had a lot more to do with personal experience and shared wisdom than with any sort of truly scientific approach. I know that speaking for myself, I would be perfectly happy shooting balls out of my piece, but I read where conicals would be uniformly more accurate so I'll try 'em. Didn't read that in a manual somewhere. It was right here in one of these threads. Anyhow...thats my own 2 cents.....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce, I think that you bring many valid points to the discussion. Personally, I also don't see the sense in trying to "improve" obsolete technology when the whole point of using old tech is to master its operation while negotiating with its technological shortcomings. Keep in mind, I focus on historical shooting and living history so to me, modern enhancements to old technology is like redesigning the candle after the light bulb has already  been developed.

That being said, I do get it why the modern enhancements are sought for SASS competition since SASS is a firearms-related sport with a western theme, not a "down to the stitch" authentic reenactment.

In regards to the grease, it depends on the chemical compound of your lubricant as to whether it aids or impedes the accumulation of fowling on your mechanical surfaces. I personally find excess of any grease to create more problems than it solves either at the shooting range or on a hard, dusty trail. Also, a pistol is a backup to your rifle and it is likely that if you did land in one of those rare occasions of being engaged in border warfare, there were few opportunities to reload in a fight. This is the reason why travelers and the military seldom carried more than a couple packages of spare rounds for their revolvers while they would carry dozens of rounds for their rifles or carbines.

Lastly, 1850 census records show that about 96-97% of (non-slave) American adults were literate. This was ascertained from a questionnaire that they had to fill out and the questionnaire would be impossible for an illiterate person to bluff through. The common misnomer that they were a bunch of illiterate clod-hopping hicks with little sense of education, hygiene, etc. is largely the invention of 20th century writers. In reality, the average rural American was a sensibly business savvy blue-collar individual who was also likely a jack-of-many trades in addition to his primary occupation.  There was the proverbial "trailer trash" then as there is now but statistically, even they would have likely had a better command of the written word than they are often given credit for.

-Dave

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Roosterman,

I tried to put up an add in Classifieds.  Didn't mean to be pushy but I do have a solution to the lube question that works.  Just trying to help.

DD-MDA

[Roosterman]

Thanks Roosterman,

I tried to put up an add in Classifieds.  Didn't mean to be pushy but I do have a solution to the lube question that works.  Just trying to help.

DD-MDA

Ah jeez DD, now you're making me feel bad. I don't want to hurt your business but   I'm sure you could buy an add here and be a major sponsor, probably even be good for business. Advertisement, (paid for) is an essential in business. You are supplying good products to the cowboy community as I have said I've used them myself.
I'm just pulling my confiscatory donation to the Government together (taxes) and discovered I paid over $1100 for advertisement for my little business.
This board/forum may not mind your aggressive approach to promoting your products which is their call I suppose. But I have been warned on forums that if I want the right to promote my stuff I have to pay for the privilege. I guess if that isn't the case here you certainly have the right to push the sales, who would turn down free advertisement on such a focused forum for your product.  Maybe I'll start doing it myself!

Now, to the question at hand. I have a book with a picture of a southern cavalry man posing for the camera with a loaded Remington revolver. It clearly shows fully loaded cylinders with no grease over the balls. Heck, a horseman wouldn't have the time to reload anyway so maybe lube for six shots just wasn't something worth worrying about.

This is irrelevant to the original question but I had forgotten about circle fly wads. They sell a prelubed cardboard wad that is about 3/8" thick. I used them quite often for CAS as they took up alot of empty space and placed the ball right up at the end of the cylinder, which I found gave better accuracy than a ball back further in the cylinder. I put them between the powder and ball. I often cut them in half if I wanted a full house load. They keep the bore well lubed and clean but on low humidity days a little spritz of ballistol on the cylinder pin didn't hurt every couple of stations.

[rifle]

Cheatin Charlie.......!!!!!!

Whart you posted makes a lot more sense then "washcut wadding". I was thunkin,"what the heck would that be".  I was havin a,"dull", day when I didn't catch that. I'm slippin.      I already knew the instructions from  Colt were to put a ball/conical  on the powder.

I started thinking there may be two versions of the instructions.

I did run across some Govt. Manual that was covering loading the Trapdoor and the Army revolver. That threw me off. 

Anyway....I thunk ole DD pushes the Big Lube Bullets some but......I figured it was as much to be a help than to drum up some sales.

An Hombre could take it either way. Doesn't bother me none. It pops up bout the Big Lubes enough to get noticed by the newbies and the Lurkers that don't rely or post.

I don't know bout Mako talkin bout lubes and all but would like to find what he had to say. He might have said to someone shootin out in the desert that doesn't want lubey stuff gathering sand and all that lube pills/wool wads with lube can be under the balls and not gather sand or dust and.....when the wax/lube gets splattered on  the arbor and front hole of a cylinder it cools right away and stays there protecting from sand while keeping fouling out of there making the cylinder turn without draggin.

Here in Ohio on a 90 degree day I have fired a hundred and more chambers without much fouling draggin the cylinder.
and no noticable powder rendered contaminated with wax/lube....once I stiffined the wax lube pill with more paraffin.

Lube/wax can be rendered to have a higher melting point with using Caster Oil and....caster wax with the caster oil able to draw or absorb a good deal of moisture. Like using a blow tube or blowin some breath down the barrel and into the chambers now and then.

Now I've goofed up and taken cold weather lube pills that are softer out on a really hot day where as the pills were mostly real soft and difficult to handle. Almost like taking a lil lube on a finger and rubbin some in the chamber so it ends up under the ball. No real noticable problem with weaker loads or anything in fact....except fer wipin my fingers on my pants that method seemed to work better. Like the softer the lube/wax is the better it works. Didn't foul enough powder to notice. Some people actually just stick some creamy lube stuff in the chamber on the powder and stuff the ball in and shoot and say it ain't bad. Maybe they add a little more powder in case some gets spoiled from the lube? Never know......ain't impossible since Folks try bout anything imaginable.

Anywhoooo...from a book on lubes fer blackpowder cartiedge bullets a recipie that works real well (a Guy fired an entire match at long range and won or came close usin it)  55% wax with bees wax at 30% and the caster wax at 25% and the caster oil at 45%.
The lube has a cystaline structure till forced thru a lube/sizer. Chips are stuck in the lube sizer and the pressure applied to lube BULLETS.

The addition of 10% RAW LINSEED OIL smooths the lube out and it stays pliable and polar(sticky) and polar is what you want out of a lube/wax so it sticks to the barrel so fouling can't.

Anywhoooo....if taking the 30% beeswax and the 25% castor wax and 45% caster oil and 10% raw linseed oil and adding some paraffin to it to harden it some it shoulkd work in the desert.  Without any paraffin the 55% wax and 45% oil has a melting point of 145 degrees.

I've had good luck with bees wax and paraffin wax and mutton tallow(or Crisco or olive oil or vegetable oil) at equal amounts and add or subtract paraffin fer cold and hot weather fer cap&baller revolver. I'm gonna try the lube I put up there (55% wax and 45% oil and 10% raw linseed oil) fer lube pills with added paraffin so I can handle the lube pills to load. Leave it as is to lube bullets whether they are fer rifle or conicals fer cap&ball revolver. Melting point 145 degrees seems good to me. Caster oil catchin water(can absorb a good amount of water) from blow tubing or breathing down a pistol barrel seems good too. Maybe in the desert. Maybe better then petroleum type oil with the blackpowder......unless maybe the oil is mineral oil.

Anywhoooo....none of this is quite original like back in the day.  I don't see anything adverse bout improving the performance of a cap&baller revolver whether it be tunin or sizing chambers or lubing or whatever. I would have been the same way even if I were "back in the day". I'd be loadin "naked" if I were in combat or self defense though. Makin no  doubt whatsoever the danged gun would shoot unless what I did to improve was fool proof.

[Coffinmaker]

After all these sometimes loving dissertations ...... I'd like to make a point.  Pokes thru my hat dontcha know.  We keep talking about
What, Where and When and debating the possibilities of "our" thoughts and ideas while being champions of different concoctions that may or may not have any historical significance.
I read a lot.  Not the infernal net, but books.  Real books with pages, written by folks who were there.  There are several glaring points.  In no instance can I find any reference to anyone reloading a percussion hand gun in a combat setting.  What I did find, is those who resorted to Percussion hand guns, resorted to many percussion hand guns.  Those tomes I read in the past all cited the same thing.  A ball (mostly) seated on a powder charge and a cap.  Thats it.  Period.  A point in fact, when Colt did a sales presentation it was common for Colt load a revolver and drop it in a handy creek or bucket for half an hour and then fire all six chambers.  The caps and cones were water tight, as is a proper sized ball loaded correctly.  Those who went in harms way with revolvers usually carried as many as six or more revolvers.  When one ran dry, it was holstered and another one drawn and fired.  Repeat as necessary.  When they all ran dry, they usually ran away.

Today, we try to complete five or six stages with 10 rounds fired with the same two guns.  Quantrell's Raiders would have carried 12 revolvers.  What we do today is not comparable to what was done in the age of the percussion revolver.  We have developed bullets and lubricants to facilitate the way we do it today.  Remember, there little if any petroleum based lubricants in those halcyon days of yesteryear. Whale oil anyone??

Beyond Cap Guns, I have never seen any dissected ammunition from the period we portray, that contained any evidence of lubricants other than that applied to "grease" grooves on bullets and that wasn't grease.  Waxy stuff.  It simply wasn't expected to expend enough ammunition from a single revolver to tie it up from fouling.  I don't claim to know what the formula was for making the propellant for those ancient cartridges and percussion revolvers, but it appears to have been somewhat cleaner burning.  Moot point.

There are a number of championed methods of bullet lubrication to keep percussion and BP cartridge guns running thru more firings in a single match than most guns, other than military, fired in a couple of months.  Plenty of time for cleaning.  Folks like DD try to provide products to facilitate playing a game.  It's only a game.  I lot of what is done to shoot a match is totally impractical for anything other than the controlled conditions present in a CAS match.  Arguing which is better is dumb.  Just try and submerge todays caps in water.

Anyway, Unless you were there, and you know how "they" did it first hand, quit throwing rocks.  Play nice and share toys.  So There.

Coffinmaker 

[Roosterman]

You are spot on Coffinmaker. They used C&B guns different that we do. They didn't need lube when they shot six rounds and rode away. We have had to come up with our own "modern" ways to keep C&B guns running to do things they were never designed to do.

[Dick Dastardly]

Shooting Ten or Twelve stages at a multi-day annual SASS match without cleaning would be impossible for the original C&B shooters.  Now, it's routine.  The technological improvements in lube carrying capacity of a new breed of projectiles make this both possible and practical.  For those that prefer traditional old time techniques, they are well known and often published.  For those that want trouble free enjoyment at high intensity SASS matches, this has also been published.

Fun shooting is what Cowboy Action is all about.  Choose what you enjoy and have at it.

DD-MDA