.45 Colt b.p. Cartridge forensics

[w44wcf]

The pic is of a dissected U.M.C. head stamped .45 Colt cartridge.
Date of manufacture - approx. 1900-1910

It contained 40 grs. of FFG powder.



For those of you that have an historic interest in "the way it was",
o.a.l. - 1.59"
case type - SHBP (Solid Head Button Pocket)
case weight - 85 grs.

bullet wt / type- 250 gr / hollow base
alloy - pure lead 4.2 b.h.n.
bullet length - .73"
seating depth - .43""

powder compression - .20"
primer - copper / mercuric

cataloged velocity 6" barrel - 910 f.p.s.

I tested 10 of these vintage cartridges in a 24" barrel. The primers were dead so I replaced them with 2 1/2 Remington's.
They averaged 1,241 f.p.s. at 15 ft. in front of the muzzle.  That's moving right along!  

By comparison, 40 grs by weight of Goex FFG averaged 1,131 f.p.s.  Obviously the b.p. used by U.M.C. in those cartridges had a higher ballistic strength.

Cartridge history is interesting.....

w44wcf

[hellgate]

Was that a balloon case head?

[Mossyrock]

^^^^^^^  My question exactly!!

[w44wcf]

Guys,
Oops!  I missed including that in the description.
I have since modified my original post.
Yes, it is a balloon head type case of the solid head type not the original 2 piece construction.

w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

From my jaundiced point of view, as purveyor of Big Lube®LLC bullet molds, the lube groves on that bullet look to puny to haul enough lube for a rifle.  Two points to consider.  First, it wasn't made for rifles.  Second, the people "back then" didn't shoot the number or rounds that we do at a SASS match without cleaning.

Just saying. . .

DD-MDA

[Cliff Fendley]

I would venture to say the original nose profiles are more accurate than the big lubes at long distance. But for main match CAS you can't beat the big lubes, you can load on Sunday and shoot all week without cleaning.

[w44wcf]

Howdy DD,
Well, actually the 44-40, a rifle round 1st and a pistol round 2nd. used a similar style 2 lube grooved bullet.  THe big difference back then is that the b.p.'s were much better than the standard present day Goex powder and did not need extra lube to keep running in rifle barrels.

Present day Swiss and Olde Enysford powders, just like the black powders of yore, work just fine with the original 2 lube grooved bullets continuing to produce excellent accuracy shot after shot after shot ........ 100+ rounds in my experience.

However with standard Goex, Kik, Schuetzen, Diamondback, bullets such as yours with their additional lube capacity are needed to keep the barrel from fouling out in continuous use which is good.

Cliff,
Yes, I have found  the original .44-40 & .45 colt bullets to produce the best accuracy as the range increases.....something I like to do.

INTERESTINGLY, I have never seen a published .45 Colt B.P. loading in a rifle giving anywhere close to the velocity of those original, historic, factory cartridges......

w44wcf    

[Cliff Fendley]

I really like my Accurate 215C 44wcf bullet mold. Good combination of a large lube groove with the original nose profile.

I suspect the Accurate 45-260F would accomplish the same thing with the 45colt.

Although I have been loading Old E in mine as of late so I may not need the extra lube.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Too bad you didn't shoot some from a 7.5" revolver with a chrono. 

[w44wcf]

Cliff,
Yes the 45-260F does provide similar downrange accuracy to the 43-2i5F and the 43-210B (427098 clone by "Fairshake") which is a copy of the original .44-40 bullet.

FCK,
Just recently, I tested 40 grs. of Olde Enysford FFG in the .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy (24") which is the same rifle I used to test the original UMC rounds.  I also brought along my 7 1/2" Ruger Bisley. Bullet was the 454190 which is a copy of the original bullet.

Testing indicated that the Olde E FFG is pretty much the ballistic equivalent of the powder UMC used in those cartridges way back when. So, I would think, the same would be true in the revolver.

Rifle > U.M.C. - 1,241 f.p.s. avg   / Olde E - 1,239 f.p.s. avg
Pistol> ....................................../  Olde E -   932 f.p.s. avg - very close to the 910 f.p.s. published data (6") vs 7 1/2" test gun

By comparison, SWISS FFG gave similar results. Standard Goex FFG was about 100 f.p.s. slower.

w44wcf
 

[Navy Six]

W44wcf, just curious, did you shoot those 45 Colt bullets with the original lube still in the grooves? Also, thanks for the info regarding Olde Enysford. Just bought a case of mixed FF & FFF but still recovering from heart surgery and not able to bet out and try it just yet.

[Dick Dastardly]

Perhaps the nose configuration does make a difference when shooting 100 yards and more.  This could explain the down range accuracy found in the DD/PUK 45-210 bullet when used in cartridge guns.  Paladin UK added the flat nose to the DD/ROA 45-210 cap and ball bullets so he could use them in his 45 Colt rifle.  I've attached the working drawing below.

DD-MDA

[Lefty Dude]

From my jaundiced point of view, as purveyor of Big Lube®LLC bullet molds, the lube groves on that bullet look to puny to haul enough lube for a rifle.  Two points to consider.  First, it wasn't made for rifles.  Second, the people "back then" didn't shoot the number or rounds that we do at a SASS match without cleaning.

Just saying. . .

DD-MDA

There was never a Rifle made back then that shot 45 LC. Thus no need for larger lube grooves.

[w44wcf]

W44wcf, just curious, did you shoot those 45 Colt bullets with the original lube still in the grooves? Also, thanks for the info regarding Olde Enysford. Just bought a case of mixed FF & FFF but still recovering from heart surgery and not able to bet out and try it just yet.

Navy Six

As Paul Harvey would say.... "Now for the rest of the story....."
1.) pulled the bullets with a impact puller, removed and saved the powder.
2.) deprimed the cases
3.) cleaned the cases and annealed them
4.) reprimed with 2 1/2 Remington primers
5.) replaced the powder and compressed it .20"
6.) reseated & crimped the bullets after replacing the dried up lube with SPG

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Perhaps the nose configuration does make a difference when shooting 100 yards and more.  This could explain the down range accuracy found in the DD/PUK 45-210 bullet when used in cartridge guns.  Paladin UK added the flat nose to the DD/ROA 45-210 cap and ball bullets so he could use them in his 45 Colt rifle.  I've attached the working drawing below.

DD-MDA

DD,
Yes indeed, in my testing the nose profile does make a difference at extended ranges.
Your 45-210 bullet has a good nose profile...one that would likely produce good accuracy at 100+ yards.

w44wcf 

[w44wcf]

There was never a Rifle made back then that shot 45 LC. Thus no need for larger lube grooves.

There must have been one someplace.....



w44wcf

[hellgate]

Didn't they used to put a crimp around the cartridge case to identify it as a smokeless loaded round? Or was there another reason for the circumferential case crimp.

[w44wcf]

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,49740.msg639660.html#msg639660

[Ranch 13]

Have you tested Goex and KIK 3f? The way those powders are screened they are much closer in kernel size to the Swiss and Eynsford 2f.

[w44wcf]

I did test KIK 3F  but at 35 grs along with Olde E FFG  at 35 grs. 
Velocities were almost identical at around 1,150 f.p.s. in the 24" barrel.

w44wcf