Why I like NCOWS

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

<Sticks her hand up>

Howdy! I shoot in a corset!

Yep, you have to be careful to have it comfortably, not tightly, laced. If it is laced correctly, the corset not only doesn't hurt, it adds back support. I've found that I am less tired at the end of a shooting day when I wear a corset than when I do not. It's all about the fit. Having a GOOD corset maker is a big help. The corset has to be cut low enough on the sides to give you a full range of arm movement, then laced tight enough so it doesn't "creep" up on you.

One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?

Thanks,

AnnieLee

[Will Ketchum]

Annie Lee, NCOWS doesn't prohibit woman from shooting in pants.  What they do prohibit is the tight, form fitting pants like the ones worn by Sharron Stone in "The Quick & The Dead".

Woman sometimes wore pants around the ranch or the farm when doing chores but wouldn't be caught dead in them in public.  On the other hand women who were impersonating men such as Calamity Jane or Charly Parkhurst (who was caught dead in pants). dressed in the typical baggy pants worn by men.

I suggest that woman interested in the topic get a copy of "The Woman" of Time Life's "Old West" series.  There are several pictures of woman in men's clothing.



Will Ketchum

[Grizzle Bear]

AnnieLee said:

"One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?"

CAN O'WORMS ALERT!  CAN O'WORMS ALERT!

You are correct in saying that women are not prohibited from wearing pants.  The trick is they have to be correct pants.  What is objected to is women wearing the tight modern fitting ladies Wah-Maker type pants.  If you wear parts that are correct to the time and your character, they would be fine.  If your character is working like a man (or trying to pass as a man) wear mens trousers.  The split riding skirts are fine.  I was just reading about some of the women (wives and sweetheats, not camp followers) that traveled with Civil War regiments, having outfits like a Zouave, with the very baggy pants.

There are very few things that are cut-and-dried, black-or-white, this-or-that.  And like anything else in NCOWS, if you can document it, you can use it!

Grizzle Bear

[Kayleen]

Annie Lee,
  I have been caught at the range wearing trousers. Yes, me of all people. They are baggy, and I wear them while impersonating a Snake Oil Salesman. Best part of that was a couple of very good friends did not recognize me.
  The key to trousers is as a couple have mentioned earlier, form fitting is out. Ladies in the pictures that I have viewed wore baggy pants often times under their skirt. But I have seen pictures of gals branding cattle with skirts on.
  I don't have a problem with the split skirts or riding skirts as they are called. Don't own one though. I like the fancy stuff to much.
  LoneGunman has a book, Ladie's in Pants(?), excellent reference. If you can find 2 sources of documentation, pictures with dates are great, present it to the congress.
Kayleen

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy AnnieLee,

Welcome aboard!  Glad you finaly decided to join us here in NCOWS.

[Lou Graham]

I wore pants at the Muster and lived to tell about it

Even though ladies can be "excused" from the more strenuous stage instructions, I like to do all of it as written.  I shot one-handed and got rug burns on my elbows from the low crawl right along with the men.  Yes, I've always been a tomboy

I got a pair of 1873 Levi's specifically for the Muster because I knew we would have things to do that could not be done in a skirt and petticoat safely or without great loss of modesty and dignity.

Lou is from Seattle.  There was a great deal of  trade between San Fransisco and Seattle.  She could have easily gone down to C.C. Filson's and bought some Levi's jeans.  

[Chantilly]

I think it would be a hoot for a posse of women to shoot in bloomers    - The HUGE bloomers that were advertised and worn by some with the knee length skirt - strange looking clothing!

Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

[Delmonico]

I have been asked several times to do some research on the "Ladies in Pants" thing.  As we all know, there is a definate lack of many pictures,  I can think of four off hand, Little Britches and Cattle Annie, Several of Martha Jane Canary and Charlie Parkhurst.  The problem here is that folks paying to have a picture taken seldom do not dress up.  150 years from now among the photo's taken by professinal photographers you won't see many of a house wife wearing what she wore that day to clean the house.

If one goes back in time a bit to the diaries of those who crossed the overland trails you will find accounts of many ladies who disscarded the dresses that got singed around the campfire for their husbands extra pair of pants and shirt or bought them at the first store.

To think that ranch and homestead women did any less is in my opinion to do a great disservece to these ladies.  On the other side of the coin, many of us remember a Grandmother who worked around the farm in pants and shirts, but "ALWAYS" changed into a dress when visiting neighbors or going to town.  These were women who grew up at the end of the era we portray so this needs to be taken into account also.  

I often use the "Blizzard of 1888" as an example, "it's daylight, the storm has stopped in the night, your husband left before daylight to see if the children are OK since they didn't come home yesterday from school.  You have a cow to milk, the chicken coop is covered and the drifts are 8 feet high between them and the soddy, wear you prairie dress if you want, but I doubt it."

This is the results of 5 years research, I can't say yes, but I won't say no they never.  I do know the modern "show my butt" pants did not exist.  But I would bet there were more women wearing pants than many believe, just not in the general public.  

Since though the shooting done does not repersent the gay social shooting events of the time period, but are attempted to somewhat duplicate events that happened or could have happened, I would guess many ladies if push came to shove would not bother to change from "men's" clothing before defendin their home.

[Marshal Halloway]

Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

[Lars]

Thanks for posting that pic of Lou in her "Huntress" dress!! I will call Stina's attention to it.

It is really nice to see a pic of Lou in something other than her "CAS shooter" clothes!!

Lars

[Stina]

I think the pants issue very much depends on your persona.  And maybe partly on weather--we shoot at a club that goes year 'round out on the Colorado prairie, and I can tell you, it's COLD out there in November with a 20-mile-an-hour wind!  It's not an NCOWS shoot, so I can wear pretty much whatever, but if I needed to go in character, there'd surely be a pair of 'red woolies' in my life!!  And a flannel petticoat....I can't really see Swedish Stina in pants, no matter what.  But for that matter, I'm not at all sure what she's doing with revolvers!

Stina

[Chantilly]

A couple of interesting websites regarding women's reform clothing -

this one BRIEFLY mentions an article about women dressing in men's clothes -

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701733/session3.html

Another regarding Amelia Bloomer and Rational Dress Reform....  http://www.fashion-era.com/rational_dress.htm

Laughing Moon Mercantile Pattern for sporting attire - http://www.lafnmoon.com/110_ladies_sporting_costumes.html 

[Chantilly]

Off subject, but then again....not - one of the good things about NCOWS - the desire to discuss period attire - and we are on women wearing men's clothes .... still...don't you love it? -

Pretty scarce, signed 1860s, Elliott & Fry cdv of the American Civil War Heroine and Doctor Mary E. Walker (1832-1919). Walker quite a figure in her time, was a supporter of Womens` rights, tended to wear male clothing, and became a respected figure during the American Civil War. During the earlier part of the war she tried to join the Union cause, was denied a commission as a medical officer but joined as an un-paid volunteer and served as acting assistant surgeon; therefore becoming the only female surgeon in the U.S. Army. She worked in the U.S. Patent Office Hospital in Washington moving on later to serve as a surgeon on the Union front lines for nearly 2 years. Constantly crossing the confederate lines to treat civilians she was eventually arrested in 1864 and imprisoned for several months before being returned in an exchange of prisoners. In 1865 she was presented with The Congressional Medal of Honour in recognition of her efforts and contributions to the war effort; she was the only woman to be presented with this, her country`s highest honour. She was asked to give it back in 1917, which to her credit she refused to do, proudly wearing it until her death in 1919.  (Medal rescinded 1917 along with 910 others, restored by President Carter 10 June 1977.)

[Ornery Orr]

I do it just so I can get a chance to see Major Matt wear a bonnet and how many firearm mishaps Lone Gunman can have in a years time.  The other reason is once a month at Logan, IA I get to visit with River City John and shoot at the increasingly popular Gunfire In The Hills range with a great bunch of folks.

[Surly Bob]

Why I like NCOWS......I can't imagine why....

[Lucky Deuce]

  I like it because of the emphasis toward authenticity.  I was in Buckskinning for years and enjoyed the camaraderie and sitting around talking about research we had done and what we found to make our gear more authentic.  I joined a different CAS group thinking that it was going to be like Buckskinning only covering the "Cowboys of the Old West".  Boy was I wrong.  All the emphasis was on shooting with a nod to "looking kind of like a cowboy"...  Someone pointed me to NCOWS and I became a life member immediately...

[Books OToole]

I've been doing living history for almost 30 years.  One of the things that was said comparing buckskinners to military re-enactors is that;  "If you stumbled into a buckskinner camp naked and starving, you would be fed and clothed."  Do the same thing at a military re-enactment and you would be ridiculed.

Now I've been a buckskinner and a military re-enactor.  The later are good people once they except you, but it can be a challenge to get excepted.

The people that I have met and shot with at NCOWS all have the buckskinner sense of hospitality.  Every time I had a firearm malfunction, I had 2 or 3 people immediately offer to loan me a gun.

And I have yet to run into the "clothing Nazi."  I'd kinda like to meet him (or her) to see if he is a smart as his reputation.

Books

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Books, he wouldn't be as smart as he thinks  he is. was.  whatever ... 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Why I like NCOWS because They like to shoot real loads . They were also smart to stop the short stroke kits and to put a minimum velocity in place . I am glad that it's about the History , not the Hollywood version . Hope to see you at the 2007 Nationals .

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy Rowdy,

I am looking forward to it!!  Great time this year and I am excited about 2007!!