*** Video Added *** Stiff Hammer on my Burnside M-1865

[VMI Cadet]

New Member and learning about these Spencer firearms.
Purchased a M1865 at a local collectors estate auction and it seems quite nice, all
intact except for a missing rear sling swivel but does have the base and screw.
My question is about the hammer which is pretty still to cock but functions correctly.
The level action is fine and easy to operate.
I was wondering if the screw in the hammer could be causing the stiffness and whether
I can loosen it a bit without causing a problem?
Would be great to have the cocking of the hammer as fluid and easy as the level action!
Appreciate any help.

[El Supremo]

Just a guess:

Be cautious.  Removal of the lock requires the hammer to be cocked to prevent splintering the wood.  Get expert advice!

Spencers have been encountered with often well fitting, heavier Sharps centerfire mainsprings instead of the weaker rimfire stiffness Spencer ones.  No way to tell from observation.    I have some of each type and most have some form of markings, often simply a single digit that is barely readable..  Perhaps "Herbert" here can help. 

Replacement Spencer springs are available from Lodgewood.  Be sure to tell them your concern.

Regards.

[VMI Cadet]

Thanks!
Holding the carbine sideways and looking at a light I can see a small space between the hammer body and the lock plate so I doubt
that the stiffness is due to the screw being to tight.  Right now I'm thinking your comment about a stiff spring is right on, especially since you have know this to happen before.  Since I'm not planning to fire it it's best to leave it original for now and it really wouldn't be any problem for firing as is, just some more effort to cock each time.
Carbine seems to be in exceptional shape, I just bought it at a local estate auction among a dozen antique arms being offered with the intention of reselling it.  After seeing it, I'm thinking this is a really neat carbine and maybe keeping it myself.
Have seen a J.L.C. inspection mark on the barrell and three 7 marks on the lever and upper and lower blocks.  Each 7 also has another mark right before it which although very distinctive, is hard to make out the character.  Also has a "p" on the butt plate.
I'm not to far from Winchester VA and I see references to Taylor and Co., maybe a source of parts.

[El Supremo]

AVOID Taylor. 
Their stuff is Italian reproduction, often with NO or frustrating parts interchangeability!

Don't rush into disassembly without authoritative guidance. 
Go ONLY to Lodgewood for authentic parts. 
There are two different "S&S" places listed on the INTERNET.
The correct S&S location is GLENDALE, NY
Ask "Mom" for Phil.

Our ADMINISTRATOR, "Two Flints" , may be busy with the weather. 
In his absence, may I respectfully suggest that you take photo's and either email them to him for posting here or post them yourself, please.  We love photo's.  Thanks.
Regards.

[Two Flints]

Thanks El Supremo,

Yup, snow blowing 12" - 14" of nice white snow  . . . I sent VMI an Email; he is not an official member yet, but has received help from you already;  thanks for your photo suggestion.  He did not mention that the carbine has a conversion block in order to fire center fire cartridges . . . need more info on the carbine.

Two Flints

[Herbert]

Changing the main spring for a Spencer is very simple if you have main spring vice,if you do not get some one who has one and knows how to do it.You may not need to replace the spring,grinding may do the trick(something that also should be done by someone who understands what they are doing).Replacment original springs can also be a problem as Sharps main spring were  interchangable with Spencer main springs in there day ,and even now original springs are sold as for Spencer or Sharps locks( if you get one of the Sharps springs it will need grinding down to fit( too wide)

[Two Flints]

Hello SSS,

If you double click on the small box with the x, or the link below the small box and the video should appear showing the hard hammer on the Burnside 1865 Spencer, which is the Spencer discussed in this thread.

Two Flints




http://vid36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/SSSMod3/1865%20Spenser%20036_zpsq1lrymie.mp4

[El Supremo]

Have to wonder how much the missing hammer ear contributes to cocking effort.
Regards,
Kevin

[VMI Cadet]

Thanks E lSupremo,

I had not recognized that the hammer was missing the ear part and this is a BIG factor in  increasing the cocking effort.
Now need to find a source to replace the hammer and rear swivel.

[Two Flints]

Hi Tom,

From looking at your Spencer you have a Burnside 1865 Spencer carbine.  It was never used in the Civil War as it was produced to late by the Burnside Rifle Company.

The opened action indicates a LOT OF RUST.  It really needs a good cleaning and a good oiling!  Where the hammer hits the received, it appears that there is a dent in the metal . . . I'd like to see a better photo of that area.

I sent you this video link      in case you want to take your carbine apart to clean it.

To fire a modern cartridge you will need to remove a part of the breech block that swings out when you open the receiver.  Do not try to fire it if you have not done this conversion . . . see the SORI Thread on my forum, SSS.

Two Flints

[Two Flints]

Tom,

I will say it one more time . . . I strongly suggest that you don't fire original rim fire cartridges intended for original  Spencers . . . for safety sake don't do it!!!!

Two Flints

[Blair]

I agree with Two Flints... more info is needed to help properly identify this carbine.

I have trouble understanding the force that would be required to brake off part of the hammer spur, and not cause some other kind of damage to the gun. Especially to the internal parts of the lock. (Hammer spur could have been cut off, but that wont help operate a firearm that has to be manually cocked every time to fire it.)

VMI Cadet,

My original thought was the inside parts of the lock needed a good cleaning. Old grease and oil can dry out, becoming like varnish, causing parts not to work well together. Peened, and dented parts may also cause parts not to work well together, along with "not so correct" replacement parts.
This kind of cleaning can be done without disassembling the lock, however, the lock should be removed from the firearm to do this well.
This info may not help much at this time. More info and photos will, perhaps help.
My best,
Blair

[Two Flints]

Hi Blair,

Here are a few of the photos I received . . . it's a Burnside Spencer, 1865:











Thanks for your comments,

Two Flints

[Blair]

Two Flints,

Thanks. These photos do help.

The hammer does need replacing! (The hammer spur is a lot shorter than I originally thought.)
Both Lodgewood, and/or S&S Firearms should be able to help in this.

There are also some shinny places on the inside face of the hammer and on the upper breach block/firing pin area that may indicate peening and/or other kind of metal deformation of some kind. Which can also cause problems with binding.
Photos do not offer the info often needed, I am sad to say. Not quite like being able to get a "hands on" examination.

I believe I know VMI Cadet.
I will be happy to try to work with him on this project, in any capacity I may be able to offer, if he wishes. He just need to contact me through my e-mail address within my profile. Hopefully any and all info will be poster on SSS?
I truly hope this info helps!
My best,
Blair

[VMI Cadet]

I notice that the top of the hammer looks like it was machined for some reason.
Maybe to make it look better if the tip broke away but it is very flat and smooth.  To a
novice like me, it looked normal until I compared it to other pics after the comment
was made suggesting that this would make cocking more difficult.
So that's all history and I wonder if I should replace it since it's probably original even
though its harder to cock?  Or better to replace it and keep the old one for a future
owner if I sell it.

[Blair]

VMI Cadet,

Just my suggestion,

Any parts and/or pieces you change, save the original. This way if you ever sell the gun, you can show the new owner the parts you changed out, and maybe the new owner will understand why you changed them out?
My best,
Blair

[Herbert]

It is also missing the Stabler cut off,this part is also available from S&S

[VMI Cadet]

I was reading somewhere that about a third of the M1865's were made without it and it makes the
carbine worth a little bit more.  No need to add something that it didn't have when issued.

[Blair]

VMI Cadet,

The problem with that is that your Spencer has the longer and larger headed screw for the Stabler cut off device.
You can't hide that by not re-installing it.
My best,
Blair

[Herbert]

Also the square cut in the lower block and the stop on the trigger plate for the cut off.The cut off is not needed for function but it does come in handy at times,and for me I just like my carbines to be as issued .These carbines played a big part in the Indian wars