Loading black... on a progressive loader??

[TUCO-the-ratt]

Ive been reading about how you guys like shooting black powder in your cowboy action matches. My experience is loading and shooting Black in my Sharps clone and a few blanks for my SAA clone just to see the smoke and flame. Lot's of fun but slow on the reloading time.

My question is if you shoot a lot of black for cowboy action matches is it all loaded one cartridge at a time? Or is there some way to safely load using a progressive loader like a Dillon taking into account the need for compression ect?

[hellgate]

I use a Dillon Square Deal for 777 in revolver & rifle cartridges and a Mec 600jr for BP 12ga.

[Short Knife Johnson]

I load on a Dillon 550B.  Size/prime station 1, expand station 2, remove case at station 3 to charge with powder and install wad and compress off-press (due to the die I use), then place bullet on case in the upstroke, seat bullet in stage 4. 

I load .44-40, .45 Colt, .45-2.4" Sharps, and .44 Russian like that with plans for more.

[Dick Dastardly]

Black Powder is set off by heat.  If you use a progressive reloader, where's the heat?  Quit smoking while reloading.  That's the major source of heat that lites off Holy Black accidentally.  Static electricity has been shown to be a non player when reloading bp.

I've used the little LEE Progressive reloader for years with no problems.  I don't smoke either.  So, use your God given brains and take common precautions and go ahead and use the tools of your choice.

FWIW, you won't find anyone here that will absolve you of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.  You are an adult.  Take responsibility for your own actions. Read the books and follow the manufacturers directions.  Beyond that, you're on your own.  Many of us are "on our own" and completely comfortable with that.  But, any advice you can get on the wire is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck,

DD-MDA

[Fingers McGee]

I load BP, T7 and Pinnacle  44-40, 45 colt, 45 ACP, and 38 special on a Hornady L-N-L.  Also load BP 12 ga on a Mec Sizemaster.  No problems

FM

[TUCO-the-ratt]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have a Dillon 550. Sounds like I can incorporate it into the system except for powder charging and compression?

[Bibbyman]

I reload 45 Cowboy Special with real black on a Dillon 550B.  I remove the powder measure link rod.  I charge case in station 3 on a top stroke using a small funnel - dip and dump powder with Lee dipper.   

[Blackpowder Burn]

I use a Dillon 650 in full progressive mode.  I had an aluminum powder hopper made for it and have never had any issues.  I've loaded many thousands of rounds of 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt and 45 ACP with zero problems. 

If your concerned about static electricity with a plastic hopper, I know one old fellow that has been loading for many more years than me that recommends using a strip of anti-static clothes dryer sheet clipped to the powder hopper and hanging down the inside of the hopper.

As DD said, it's ultimately your responsibility - just use common sense.

[Noz]

Lots of us load on progressives and turrets with no special attention givven to the black powder.  I use a Lee Turret..

Some are cautious and do not.

[Lefty Dude]

I load BP on a Dillon SDB progressive. I remove the powder assy. from the tool head and made my own Powder funnel/expander die. I charge the cases with a Lee Dipper thru a Brass funnel mounted on top of the powder/ expander die stem. The expander is JB welded to the inside of the stem, expansion adjustment is by the threaded stem on the tool head.
I load my 44WCF by this arrangement, works for me. I have a separate tool head just for this purpose.

[TUCO-the-ratt]

This all makes sense except I see no mention of powder compression. At least a little compression is mandatory as I understand it. Do you just compress the powder with the bullet during seating or use a compression die with a wad then seat the bullet as a separate step?

[Slowhand Bob]

Yes on my part, seating the bullet offers the little bit of compression needed.  Even more than necessary on my part as I am using APP.  I use two LNL APs dedicated to smokeless and a third one doing some of my bp loads.

[Cliff Fendley]

Tuco. On my main match pistol caliber loads I compress the powder with the bullet anyway so it doesn't matter if I load them single stage or progressive. You could put a compression die on station three if you want to compress separately.

I have never used the Dillion in full progressive mode with black powder but I have to wonder if it even matters with the plastic powder hopper.

If static electricity is really an issue then why did the powder manufacturers start putting black powder in plastic bottles?

[Blackpowder Burn]

I charge just enough powder to get a slight compression when seating the bullet.  It's not enough to cause deformation of the bullet when seating.  There is no need for wads if the correct bullet and lube are used.

Cliff, although I tend to agree that static isn't as much of a problem as many consider it, the plastic bottles now used for BP have an additive that makes them conductive in order to bleed off any static charge.  Of course, you have to wonder where the static charge would ground to, when bottles are typically setting on wood or plastic shelves, which are then setting on flooring which is a pretty good insulator.    Maybe conscientious folks run a grounding wire to each can? 

[Cliff Fendley]

I charge just enough powder to get a slight compression when seating the bullet.  It's not enough to cause deformation of the bullet when seating.  There is no need for wads if the correct bullet and lube are used.

Cliff, although I tend to agree that static isn't as much of a problem as many consider it, the plastic bottles now used for BP have an additive that makes them conductive in order to bleed off any static charge.  Of course, you have to wonder where the static charge would ground to, when bottles are typically setting on wood or plastic shelves, which are then setting on flooring which is a pretty good insulator.    Maybe conscientious folks run a grounding wire to each can? 

I always wondered if there was something different about the plastic bottles. I actually use the bottom of one to do my dipping out of to charge cases but as you say it's sitting on a wood bench.

[Slowhand Bob]

The last time I talked with a tech at Hornady, he claims that the real danger with standard loading machines is not static as much as friction sparks??  Perhaps it is time for some bronze or brass parts substitutions from the manufacturers??  Other positives to using such materials in the presses would be less chance of corrosion and a natural lubricity between the parts.  When one considers the reduced machining cost of working with softer metals it should just about balance out the innitial difference in the higher metal cost, no?

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Personally I am not interested in having a bomb right in front of my face. There is always the chance that Stercus Accidit and some one has to use a stick and a spoon to pick up the pieces.

I do load BP the (real stuff) on my Dillon 550B but the difference is in the second stage where I use a Lee expander die and dip the powder through it to charge the case. The rest of the way is usual seat, crimp, and drop the loaded round into the little blue box.

That way I only keep a small container open on the table and add powder to it as needed. At worst I might get a little burned and need a fresh pair of shorts, but would be alive and kicking.

Respectfully submitted

Bunk

[Lefty Dude]

With the Dillon Reloader we have the Powder hopper stem as Steel and the Powder/expander funnel as Steel, one inside the other. Can we get a spark, who knows ? I do not want to be the one to find out the answer.
In my application I have the two pieces epoxied together with no movement between the two. I dip the powder to a brass funnel, placed on top of the stem.

[Flint]

I made up heads for my Dillon 550 for black powder loading, using Hornady powder measures.  Shifting the order a bit so I can use a belling die where the Dillon powder measure would be for smokeless.

[Slowhand Bob]

I also know that the Hornady bp measure  can easily be adapted to work in auto mode with the LNL AP by just using the correct linkage.  My ultimate fix has been to use APP for my SASS metallics main match loads.  Shotgun, big bore rifle and cap-n-ball still get get loaded with real bp BUT those use different single stage loading processes.