Ulzana's Raid - Scout Dress

[Bruce W Sims]

Dear Folks:

Not only am I new to the whole "reenactor" thing but I still have a lot to learn about uploading pictures here....
so apologies in advance.

I recently became an avid patron of Black Powder and that has pushed me in the direction of historically accurate
Scout dress to go along with my shooting activities. I have attached a picture of Burt Lancaster's dress as a
Civilian Scout in post-1881 Arizona in the movie Ulzana's Raid. . I have a couple of questions.

a.) The dress varies considerably from the Plains dress I usually see in the resources I have found so far. There is a bit of fringe but not like the 4-6 inch stuff I have seen in some of the costume shops. There is also a bit of ornamentation across the chest that
I don't see in other places.

b.) The coat length is down to the crotch like a range coat or scout coat, so its not like those Biker Jackets from the 60-s. It also seems to be made of a kind of suede rather than a heavy wool like a town coat or even a sack coat.

c.) The pants may be buckskin or maybe just canvas dungerees--hard to tell

d.) The boots/moccasins are definitely a suede-type leather.

e.) The hat is also problematic because it is not a standard slouch hat.

I'd hope someone can favor me with some comments about the authenticity os this costume for 1880-s Arizona and
how I could begin to fashion something similar for myself. So far all of the places I have looked want me to dress-up
like something out of Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show.  Thoughts? Help?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Niederlander]

Do you have questions, just posting a photo, or what?

[pony express]

While I can't help much with what exactly a civilian scout might have worn on the trail, I can say that Hollywood probably isn't the best way to get accurate information. Probably most anything worn by an ordinary cowboy of the period would work. There's lots of photos posted in this site, you might try searching in the NCOWS and Historical Society boards for some ideas

[Niederlander]

Sorry, when it first came up, all I could see was the picture.  Jim Hanson of the Museum of the Fur Trade wrote a book on the dress of scouts and buffalo hunters that you can usually find quite reasonably.  The Time-Life book "The Scouts" would be another good source.  You can also Google names like Frank and Luther North, and William Comstock.  Since an awful lot of scouts started out as Mountain Men you could also look in that direction.  I'd have to agree with Pony that Hollywood is usually a fairly poor source.  Most scouts seemed to have dressed more as day laborers than what the movies would have you believe.

[ChuckBurrows]

Look up Al Sieber who was head of the Apache scouts for a while - here's one link to him wearing a buckskin jacket similar to that in Ulzana's raid

http://www.sharlot.org/library-archives/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/08-03-13_po0813pb.jpg

[St. George]

St. George's Notes XXI - Indian Scout Uniforms...
« on: August 02, 2005, 12:42:43 PM »     

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Every so often - someone wants to do an Impression of  a Scout - more often, an Indian Scout or someone associated with them.

That way - they get to use all sorts of bits and pieces that they figure a scout would wear.

There was a difference, though.

Early on - such fanciful dress would've been a common sight, since those folks would not've been subject to a uniform - but after 1866 - things changed, because prior to that time - Indians employed as scouts and guides were not actually soldiers but were considered employees.

The history of Indians employed by the Army is a long one - Indians having aided the Army in the Revolution, the War of 1812, and on both sides of the Civil War - with at least one becoming a General.

In 1891 - the War Department manned some Cavalry Troops and Infantry Companies with Indians - but these men served as regular troops - wearing the standard uniform - and 'not' as Indian Scouts.

On 28 July 1866 - the Congress authorized the Army to have a Corps of Indian Scouts.
There was an  'actual' uniform that came about in at that time - and they wore cast-off and obsolete uniforms.

In 1890 - special uniforms were prescribed - with that uniform being proposed by First Lieutenant Edward Casey - Commander of the Indian Scouts Troop at Fort Keough, Montana, who wrote the Secretary of War with his suggestions.

War Department Circular - dated 15 August 1890 - authorized a distinct uniform virtually unchanged from that of the one suggested by the Lieutenant.

It included a Black felt fatigue hat with a 3 1/2" brim and a 3 1/2" crown, A White hat cord with a Red strand intermixed decorated the hat, along with a special hat ornament.
The standard Dark Blue shirt was modified to have a deeper collar "to hold a neck-handkerchief".
The overcoat was unusual insofar as it was designed to fit over 'all' accouterments.
It came within 10" of the ground, featured a long rear slit to allow for more comfortable seating on the saddle and it at also had a pointed hood.
A surviving example is in the Collection of Fort Sill's Museum.

The Scout Dress uniform was generally similar to the standard uniform with chevrons, trouser stripes  and other trim of White with Red trim.

When that uniform changed in 1902 - the White with Red trim remained.

From 1890 until early in the twentieth century - Regulations called for Indian Scouts to wear Silver-colored crossed arrows on the Dress Blue uniform's Brass helmet plate.
The Quartermaster Depot initially stocked this insignia, but by 1900 all initial purchases were exhausted.

Lieutenant Casey recommended:  "Two arrows, crossed, to be made of nickel or of some white metal, three inches in height, the letters USS in the intersection' as the ornament for the special Black hat.

The Office of the Quartermaster General Specifications Number 318, dated March 1892 - depicts this insignia.
The Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot issued several hundred of these insignia and in November of 1893 - placed a second order for 323 additional devices - as the cost of .15 each.

As an aside - in the 1960's - a partial original insignia was used to make a die and restrike copies were made of this unique insignia.

No complete original hat devices are known - though the Philadelphia Depot had 275 in stock in March of 1901.

Prescribed in 1902 - the block letters USS were worn on both the collar and the hat - until they were withdrawn in 1907 when the Army removed all Campaign hat insignia.

In 1902 - the Bronze letters were also worn on the collars of service coats until the Army changed to a collar disk in 1910.

Also in 1902 - the Army decided not to issue the Indian Scouts a new dress uniform - issuing Service uniforms only.
Specifications of 1915 call for Gilt letters of the same design and style of the older Bronze letters.
No evidence has been given to suggest that they were produced, as there was no Dress uniform requiring their issue.

In March 1921 - the Indian Scouts became a part of the Detached Enlisted Man's List - and were authorized a collar disk featuring the crossed arrows - unlike that of the regularly-issued disk for that element - the Great Seal.
Few would actually wear this insignia, as by that time there were only 23  men eligible.

With the adoption of the crossed arrow disk - the USS disk disappeared completely.

In the '20's and '30's - Indian Scouts served as a labor force - assisting carpenters, plumbers and others.
They wore whatever insignia was available as they faded into the mists of history - though one Apache Scout Detachment continued to perform military duties (a wide-ranging description, to be sure) until disbanded in 1947.

In speaking of reference books - a very good reference on Indian Scouts is:

"The Indian as a Soldier at Fort Custer, Montana" - by Upton.

It goes into much of the material surrounding those soldiers and is well-written and well-researched.

No idea where a copy may be found.

The Indian Scouts pictured are in the standard Army dress, though - as required.

Another good book for your references is:

"To Live and Die in the West - The American Indian Wars" - by Hook and Pelger, and available through Osprey.

Yet another is:

'Wolves for the Blue Soldiers' - Dunlay

And:

'Scouting for the U.S. Army, 1876 - 1879, the Diary of Fred M. Hans' - reprinted from the South Dakota Historical Collections, in 1981

If you want a more 'colorful' look and yet a 'realistic' one - Frederick Remington's artwork is pretty accurate and has the added feature of some color.

What I'm referencing here - is the 'standard' uniform as laid down in Regulations and seen at the Fort or in Garrison.

'On Campaign' - as often noted - there was sometimes a wider variety of clothing worn.
Varieties of that are seen in Remington's work - as well as in pictures taken in the field.

The Indian Scouts were led by white Officers - detailed from their parent Branch.
That Branch was most likely Cavalry and they were to return to it upon completion of their assignment as Commanders of those detachments.

They would've worn the Crossed Sabers of that Arm.

Non-Commissioned Officers were drawn from the ranks of the Indians - as were those in Regular units.

The only photo of an Indian Scout - a Crow from Troop L, 1st Cavalry - wearing any sort of hat ornament, by the way - is one of an NCO wearing a pair of the M1872 Crossed Sabers.

Take that for what you will...

Unfortunately, as far as historical accuracy is concerned - Hollywood muddied the waters a long time ago through 'artistic license', and thus was born the "John Ford Reference Library" - a wholly-ficticious, yet dangerous place to draw an accurate picture of the Frontier Army.

The above covers Indian Scouts.

White scouts would wear the commonly available civilian clothing, and not articles of uniform, since association with the Army wasn't something to be overly proud of, as the Frontier Army was looked at as if it were a parasite on the public treasury - despite the often dangerous duty, and even commissioned Officers were viewed askance.

Some articles of equipment would be available - sold, as mentioned earlier, by deserters.

The Quartermaster contract wagoner/freighter - of which there were many - were sometimes supplied with obsolete weapons and ammunition as may be available on Post - but it was more a case of outfitting the 'wagon' than the man - like supplying a spare wheel.

Good Luck, and Happy Researching...

Scouts Out!

[Gabriel Law]

It is difficult to get true accuracy from a period studio photograph, as many times, articles of clothing have been provided by the photographer from his studio inventory.  But its better than relying on Hollywood's impressions.
One thing you will see every time, in an old time photo, is the men have their hats pushed back so light can hit their faces, and thus make a better photograph.

[Bruce W Sims]

....and that is why I took this route.......since I just KNEW you fellas would be awesome!
Thanks for all the hints and suggestions.
Here are a couple of things that I have found.

a.) I've become gun-shy about studio photographes since I found out that many studio-s
kept props and clothing to dress people in a style that was consistent with what observers would expect to see.
What I was hoping to find was something more along the lines of what clothes looked like "on-the-job".

2.) The Indian scouts themselves definitely wore uniforms are, at least uniform dress for years. Their officers
seemed to play fast-and-loose with the dress codes. The ones I am having trouble with are the Civilian Scouts
who were contractors (as it were) for the Military. I have a picture of William (Medicine Bill) Comstock in what looks like
a collarless shirt, collarless vest and a heavy town coat. There was a studio shot of John Y Nelson but even with his whole family there it still looked staged. The worst seems to be bits like Buffalo Bill Cody and that "indian jacket" supposedly worn by Kit Carson.

3.) Now I did start to go through some old Sears Catalogs back to 1906 to get an idea of what sort of work clothes a fella working as a Civilian Contractor might wear but then I feel like I am guessing at it.

Anyhow....thats what I have so far.
Best Wishes,

Bruce

[River City John]

Just to wet your imagination.

[St. George]

If you're wondering - then refer to the above-mentioned references.

They wore what clothing as was available during the time frame from the dry goods stores.

The catalog you refer to has earlier reprint editions - most Public Libraries have copies, or can order them - and they also have shelves full of books on items of dress used by all periods, so find a librarian and ask for their help.

The idea that they were 'colorful', and were adorned with all manner of Indian garb may have been true - once - but that was when the last of the fur trappers finally died off, or were too infirm to leave the towns they eventually were drawn to.

After that, they wore what every other civilian wore at the time - and they didn't wear trouser belts like the 'hero' seen in the photo does - that's a 'Hollywood' thing, as were the various 'Wild West Show' outfits that the Eastern public thought all men wore on the Frontier.

There's a wide divide between the 'reel Old West' and the 'real' Old West', and using the 'John Ford Reference Library' as a source can lead one astray.

Scouts Out!

[Pitspitr]

+1 on Jim Hansen's book.
Also check museums. Museum of the Fur Trade and the Cody center come to mind.

Another thing to consider is that not all the props were owned by the photographer. There are photo's of Bill Cody and Texas Jack Omohundro wearing the same coat. It belonged to Cody and is on display at the Cody Center.

[ChuckBurrows]

More Al Siber Photos, not all studio images....
Al Sieber Photos

The Museum of the Fur Trade, Scouts, etc. book is a good one, bit is centered mainly on the scouts on the Great Plains and not the far SW scouts.....

[pony express]

Wonder what the date of this pic is?
http://frontierpartisans.com/773/al-sieber-chief-of-scouts/

Seems something like that could be made up with off the shelf CAS clothing pretty easily

[Bruce W Sims]

Great suggestions..... thanks for everything. I'll follow-up on those resources.

The two things that I want to avoid are the garrish colors and loud embroidery that seem so common
in many of the pictures. I know that modern dyes and textiles tend to be far more loud or striking
in their visual impact while the 19th Century clothing tended to be a bit more muted. In like manner the pictures of the
Civilian Scouts replete with 6" fringe, and heavy embroidery just does not look like what a working stiff
would have worn out on a mission or campaign. When I compare the Civilian Scout to his Native American counterpart
the difference is telling. For instance, in most of the group shots of the N/A Scout units I don't see a lot
of beads and baubles though for studio shots there is certainly a lot more.

Another thing that I have noticed in many of the modern re-enactors is how fresh and clean everybody looks,,,, like they just stepped out of a display case at one of those "sutler" websites. Seems to me that if a guy was on the frontier and wearing the
same clothes day after day and maybe boiling his uniforms once a month to kill the flea and tick eggs, the uniforms would
have looked a lot more care-worn as in the case, say, of the Apache Scout photo-s. Are there any re-enactor groups who go in for this sort of realism? Am I going over the top?  Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Pitspitr]

Most of us look fairly clean at the beginning of the weekend, but by the end of the weekend there are usually some new patches (right Doug?) and lots of new or bigger sweat stains. 

Seriously though, you're right most reinactors' uniforms do look too clean and too new. I wash mine when they get dirty and patch them when they wear through. They look new and clean when they are new but the longer I have them the more wore in they look.

[St. George]

Then instead of washing your stuff in the washing machine - try washing it by hand in a washtub and rinsing with the hose and letting it air-dry over a bush.

That way, it'll gain a different type of wear and won't be 'quite' as thoroughly sanitized.

You could use 'Castile' soap or one of the 'Camp' soaps that are touted as being good for everything - but in reality, all you're trying to 'seriously' wash are going to be those parts that come into direct contact with your skin, in order to avoid irritation, while the rest is pretty well taken care of by the sudsing.

Look for a soap without any sort of scent.

Another way for them to gain 'character' is to actually 'wear' them - and you can do that when doing chores or hunting.

There are threads on this over on the 'Historical Society' forum and the 'NCOWS' forum - find them and read them.

Remember - studio photos showed the gaudy stuff that folks 'back East' expected, as well as finery.

The reality was much plainer and grittier and there aren't a lot of photos of that.

Scouts Out!

[Pitspitr]

St. George, Supposedly Ivory is supposed to be a good choice too. Supposedly their recipe hasn't changed much over the years.

Below is a line drawing from an early photograph of Conrad "Little Buckshot" Wentworth.  But again as you say plains style and posed.


And from which this photo was posed to simulate.

[Bruce W Sims]

I'm gonna guess that "buckskin coat is more likely a sheep or buffalo skin turned inside and leaving the underside turned out to
produce the fluffy cuffs and collar. I'll also guess that the footwear may be moccasins but probably the higher ankle or calf-height version. Certainly the plainer more utilitarian look is what I have in mind.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Major 2]

I've always liked Joe Grandee's art,  do a Google and hit images...there are several good examples

My personal coat is a Smoke tan deerskin frock length fringed at the yoke and skirt , it has 4 original Waterbury 7/8  C within the eagle & shield.
Fringe also runs the sleeve seem and the collar is an oversize lay-down.

At one time it sported Major's bars ( but that was 14 years ago) the coat itself was made for me in 1991 , prior to several films
I did... "Geronimo, an American Legend" 92 or 93  & "Son of the Morning Star" 1991 and "North & South Heaven & Hell" 1994.
Might of even had it on "Rough Riders" ??

Though Robert is right, "shouldn't  use films as your data base,"  there were a number of us, what we called the "Migrant Film Workers Cavalry" and we did our homework...  

[St. George]

I suppose one could use 'Pears' or one of the other 'tar' soaps - and any of the home-made variants sold by Civil War sutlers could work, if it had lye in it and wasn't scented - the lye being a most common additive of the time, and many produce it today.

Stay away from any of the 'modern' soaps, though - you want to use a 'natural' soap on your clothing -and  mostly, you'd prefer it if it just didn't smell, but smell it will, of woodsmoke, gunpowder, sweat and maybe even horse sweat, if your shooting has a mounted group, so settle for a more or less 'general' cleaning.

Scouts Out!