I'm Super excited!

[Pitspitr]

After years of looking, I've finally found a M-1899 Smith and Wesson I can afford. It doesn't have any finish left and the grips are wrong but the dealer says it looks like it should be a good shooter. (exactly what I was looking for anyway) It should be here by the end of the week.

[pony express]

Congratulations! Are these chambered/bored the same as the '92 Colts, with .375 bore, or do they use the .357 bore?

[Pitspitr]

It's 38 Long Colt so it takes a 150 gr .361 bullet. As I understand it, S&W couldn't bring themselves to mark them 38 LC though so they marked them 38 Mil.

[Niederlander]

Starline Brass has .38 Colt brass for sale right now.  Might as well stock up!

[Niederlander]

What bullet weight did the original loading use?  Lee has a .375 diameter mold for percussion pistols that weighs 130 grains.  Has anyone tried that?

[Bat 2919]

I've used .358 or 9 if I can get them bullets in my Colts chambered in 38 Long Colt and never had any problems with key holing.  I created a new load this year for a 158 GR. lead bullet sized .358 for the GAF muster knowing I was going to be using it on steel knock down targets.  I pushed past the published data for the LC and I'm using what they recommend as a beginning .38 Spl. Trail Boss load.  I'm seeing no issues in the Colts and may go up a bit more on the TB as even with the heavy bullets I still had to shoot some targets more than once.

Enjoy the new revolver, is the holster original as well?

[Pitspitr]

Thanks for the info Bat. That would sure make it a lot simpler going from 38 Spl to 38 LC in my press. All I'd have to do is to change out the dies.

It appears to be an original holster. To be real honest I didn't spend much time asking about it as I was mostly interested in the revolver. It does look more like the holster for the larger New Services or 1917's though.

[River City John]

Colonel,
I had a box and a half of .38 Long Colt brass that was generously donated to me.
Haven't found a use for them to date.  'Cept now.

They're on their way to you.


RCJ

[pony express]

The original .38 LC was loaded with a "heel base" bullet which was .375 diameter outside the case, but .357 or so inside. Looked like an oversize .22 shell. The Army changed to using a hollow base, but I believe the Navy didn't change. From what I can find on the net, about 1903 or 4, Colt barrels were changed from .375 groove diameter to the smaller diameter. I know on my 1892, it has the larger bore, and a .358 bullet will drop right through. What I don't know, since the army already used the smaller diameter bullet anyway, and S&W started making 38 Special in 1899, and .38 S&W for years before that, did they just use the .361 bore?

[Bat 2919]

If .358's don't work for you give a swaged or soft cast lead hollow base bullet a try before you go to loading anything too exotic (insert expensive). 

Speer and Hornaday still make the tried and true 148 Gr. .358 swaged lead hollow base wadcutter that should expand to engage the rifling in any bore.  Being a flat nose it doesn't look anything like a normal bullet and also will be a bit slow to reload for the same reason.

I also found that Buffalo Arms lists a 150 Gr. .358 Dia. soft cast, hollow base, pure lead bullet that should work as long as you don't try to push them too fast.  http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=157080&CAT=4136

[Pitspitr]

Not trying to push a bullet too fast out of an antique pistol sounds like a good idea anyway.

I appreciate the suggestions. The 38 Colt is a chambering I haven't loaded before, and just a cursory look around hasn't yielded the bullets I expected.

[pony express]

Depending on the bore size, and the bullet required, you may just have to screw your .38 Special dies a bit farther down in the press. I'm eager to find what the dimensions S&W used when they made these. I'm wondering, since they just came out with this gun in their new .38 Special caliber, and since the Army .38 load would fire in it just fine, maybe they just sold the army the same gun, just marked differently? If that's the case, you wouldn't even need to use LC cases, just use lightly loaded .38 Special.

[Pitspitr]

Depending on the bore size, and the bullet required, you may just have to screw your .38 Special dies a bit farther down in the press. I'm eager to find what the dimensions S&W used when they made these. I'm wondering, since they just came out with this gun in their new .38 Special caliber, and since the Army .38 load would fire in it just fine, maybe they just sold the army the same gun, just marked differently? If that's the case, you wouldn't even need to use LC cases, just use lightly loaded .38 Special.

If I remember correctly my 38 spl dies already are in contact with the shell holder. but I may have to experiment a little.
As for the cambering, I don't really know. Most of what I've learned about the M-1899 S&W I learned from here:
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=10941,DATABASE=objects,

[Delmonico]

Oh just slug it and get it over with.   

Chamber cast a couple of the holes and get the whole story.

[pony express]

He'll have to have it in hand to slug it. We're all expecting a full report, and also show and tell at the Division of the Missouri Muster.

As for the dies, since they're already screwed all the way in, then maybe the crimp die won't work for the Long Colt, but all the others should be the same. But everything kind of depends on the way S&W set up the gun. If the chambers are bored straight through, or at least bored deep enough to chamber a .38 Special case, then you can just use them, loaded to the proper levels,as long as the overall length fits the cylinder.

[Bat 2919]

All he has to do take his seating die down the hall to the metal shop teacher.  Have him chuck the die up in his lathe and take a few thousands off the bottom.  Don't forget to check the inside bevel on the existing dies before you start to take any material off so you can recreate it when you get the dies to the desired length.  The bottom of these dies is normally hardened but once you get past that the rest is easy.  I learned this years ago when I began loading .44 Russian.

The failures of the .38 Long Colt to drop targets are well documented.  I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it won't drop Jerry's steel targets.

[Charles Isaac]

Sounds good Colonel-I haven't found one of those worth buying for the right money yet!


Your turn of the century Smith & Wesson shoots the Colt .38-

My turn of the century Colt shoots the Smith & Wesson .38!



(All of the Offy-Sir Model New Army/Navy Colts were .38 Spl, but marked the same as a .38 LC)

[Charles Isaac]

More original guns in the GAF is a good thing far as I'm concerned!

Colonel Drydocks 100 year old Colt shoots the Smith & Wesson .38 too!

[Pitspitr]

Well, I picked it up yesterday. It's in better shape than I thought. It does still have some blue, though very little. (I'm ok with that) I don't think the part about it not having matching serial numbers is correct. The 2 numbers that don't match are on the same piece of steel. These numbers don't match on either of my other 2 Smith K frames either. (I need to do more research on it.) The number on the grip frame is definitely in the Army serial number range and it is martial marked. It's showing a lot of holster wear on the barrel and the front of the cylinder, but it appears to have had "honest" use, not abuse. The inside of the barrel and the cylinders need cleaned, quite a bit of crud and lint in there. The cylinders definitely have not been bored through for 38 Special. The "Magna" grips have been on it a long time because there's quite a bit more blue under the top of them than on the exposed areas of the gun. The trigger is smooth and breaks cleanly, but it is hea-vy. Tons heavier than either of my other S&W K frames, literally. I haven't had a chance to shoot it or to slug the barrels.

[Niederlander]

Must have gotten their spring stock from Mack Trucks, like Colt did for my New Service!