USFA Restoration

[jd45]

I should be getting mine back next month from Alan Harton in Houston, TX. I damaged it severely with a double charge a few years ago. It needs a topstrap welded to the cylinder frame; new .45 Colt cylinder; pin; & pin bushing. It has a 7-1/2" barrel; cch'd hammer to go with the cch'd cylinder frame & rubber grip panels, but I'm thinking about having Eagle Grips in Carol Stream, Illinois fit some 2-piece walnut panels, as I don't like the looks of the rubber. The action was smooth as butter & she was accurate to 50yds offhand, (exceptional for me). A real beauty. Alan assured me she'd be good as new. It's what I'm prayin for.....I'll post some pics. jd45

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

jd45,
PLEASE give us a full report when you get your gun back from Harton.  To the best of my knowledge, you are the first one on this board to have such a restoration done.
CJF

[jd45]

I certainly will Captain, just as soon as I take possession of it & have a chance to look it over & do a range test. He didn't give me a date specific, but if I don't hear from him by the 15th, I'm gonna call him. I'll keep you posted, jd45

[Blackpowder Burn]

I'm sure it will be as advertised.  I've personally handled the gun Alan restored from only a frame with a demolished backstrap - and it looks like it just came from the factory.

In addition, I have a friend who recently experienced a house fire that completely destroyed his home and all of his guns were exposed to the fire - stored loose, not in a safe.  He had a pair of USFA Rodeo's that I thought were destined for the scrap pile.  Just a pile of rust, combustion and corrosion products.  They came back looking almost new.  There was some fine surface pitting that my friend judged wasn't worth restoring.  Otherwise, they look as feel just as they did when purchased from Long Hunter.

[jd45]

Thanx for your words of encouragement, Blackpowder Burn. They are very much appreciated as this my first experience with Mr Harton. I took Jeff Quinn's recommendation after reading his article on his website, Gunblast.com. Since then I've read good things about Alan on the Colt Forum. The hard part is the seemingly endless waiting. jd45

[CptEnglehorn]

now that is darn pretty, id love to see the restoration when its done, ive heard great things about Mr.Harton.

[jd45]

I'll post pics as soon as I'm able to. jd45

[Blackpowder Burn]

I know the waiting is hard - I'm not overly endowed with patience myself, which my wife will certainly testify to!

However, good work takes time.  You'll be happy you waited.

[jd45]

I got a call from Mr. Harton today regarding the progress on my revolver.The topstrap has been welded on the cylinder frame & he cut the new rear sight notch, square-bottomed to match the top of the front sight. I've done some very accurate shooting with that sight combo, so I wanted it restored so it looked just like it came from the factory. Next, he's gonna load some ammo & test-fire it to make double damn sure it's good & strong. He mentioned 10grs of Unique under a 250gr RNFP. When he's satisfied, he'll send it off to Doug Turnbull for the re-color case hardening treatment. He said I should be hearing from him in about 4 weeks, & tell me the cost & ask where to send it. He's gonna re-blue it, too. The barrel, at least, has some dings & scratches & he wants it looking as perfect as possible. jd45

[yahoody]

That has to be very exciting!  Congrads!!  I am sure you won't be disappointed.  I for one am just glad there are still true artists that can put a 6 gun together right the first time or  in this case, the 2nd    I am sure to need his services myself at some point.  Gary G. had my last one fixed for me when there still was a life time warrenty.  Only cost me a cylinder. 

[jd45]

Hello to all! Well, I got some very good news this week from Mr. Harton. My SA is done. He just needs me to send him some ammo that I'll be running thru it so he can finalize the poi. I sent him 20 rounds of .45 Colt w/250RNFP & 10.9grs VV N-350 powder.......a standard velocity load out of my 3rd Edition VV manual. The gun should be here next week. I'll post a report & pics, but I'll need to find out HOW to post pics, cause I don't know the first thing about doing it. I do have a digital camera. Any help will be appreciated. jd45

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the update, JD45.  I, for one, am really looking forward to seeing your restored USFA.

[jd45]

Good news! I got my USFA back Tuesday! Went to an indoor range today, my day off, to see how it shoots & I can tell you I was NOT disappointed! All shots into a 2" bullseye on the target @ 50FT. Will be going to Bristol, Wisconsin's outdoor range on Sunday to ring it out further. Am working on getting some pictures posted asap. It was worth the wait AND the charges to resurrect it. Doug Turnbull did a great job on the CCH of the cylinder frame, tho it's not how it came from the factory. His method lately seems to be a muted, less brilliant coloring than in years past. I'm OK with it. The action is smoooooth, too!  jd45           

[Blackpowder Burn]

Glad to see it was everything you hoped.  I was sure Alan would deliver top-notch work.

[jd45]

He most certainly did! I can now recommend him from personal experience. jd45

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

I should be getting mine back next month from Alan Harton in Houston, TX. I damaged it severely with a double charge a few years ago. It needs a topstrap welded to the cylinder frame; new .45 Colt cylinder; pin; & pin bushing. It has a 7-1/2" barrel; cch'd hammer to go with the cch'd cylinder frame & rubber grip panels, but I'm thinking about having Eagle Grips in Carol Stream, Illinois fit some 2-piece walnut panels, as I don't like the looks of the rubber. The action was smooth as butter & she was accurate to 50yds offhand, (exceptional for me). A real beauty. Alan assured me she'd be good as new. It's what I'm prayin for.....I'll post some pics. jd45

  JD I just ran across this post and am fraught with curiosity. What model was your USFA? American made, Uberti or a combination thereof?What powder were you using when  the double charge occurred?

   In Handloader #259 Brian Pearce writes of testing USFA's in an attempt to determine "breaking or failure point". In the same article he mentions the larger frame window, larger diameter cylinder and thicker cylinder walls all which "effectively double the chamber strength in .45 Colt. "

   I have no desire whatsoever to hot-rod my newly acquired USFA but find the fact that they're built more heavily than similar model Colts very interesting.

  Cholla

[yahoody]

"the larger frame window, larger diameter cylinder and thicker cylinder walls all which effectively double the chamber strength in .45 Colt. "

Ya that is being pretty optimistic IMO.  Stronger sure.  But all the Ubertis and the vast majority of the USFA guns use the same larger cylinder and window dimensions.

Double charge of anything that resembles a standard factory 255gr lead load will still blow them up with ease.  Of course gun writers are given guns to sell guns, bending the facts to suit is as common in that profession as the wind blowing in Texas. 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

"the larger frame window, larger diameter cylinder and thicker cylinder walls all which effectively double the chamber strength in .45 Colt. "

Ya that is being pretty optimistic IMO.  Stronger sure.  But all the Ubertis and the vast majority of the USFA guns use the same larger cylinder and window dimensions.

Double charge of anything that resembles a standard factory 255gr lead load will still blow them up with ease.  Of course gun writers are given guns to sell guns, bending the facts to suit is as common in that profession as the wind blowing in Texas.  

 Evidently you haven't read the article as you don't seem to understand its contents, and I probably didn't explain it well. The magazine is back at my office, so I'll go from memory and paraphrase.

 Mr. Pearce stated the Rockwell hardness of the cylinder(which escapes me) then went on to explain that the USFA's cylinder walls, at the bolt notches, are .020" thick where Colt's are .010", hence his statement regarding the effectively doubled chamber strength. The hardness of the cylinder is significant because he mentions in other unrelated articles the relative softness of the metal used in the cylinders of imported SA's. He also touches on his experiments in a controlled environment in testing the strength of USFA's and mentioned that the USFA was stout enough to be, and was, chambered in .44 Magnum.

 I'm not sure why your brought up the subject of a double charge as your statment pretty much goes without saying.

 You might want to go here where for a mere $5.95 you can obtain the magazine and read the article for yourself.
Cholla

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  OK...here's exactly what he said: ...USFA is machined from high-grade 4140 chrome molybdenum steel. Cylinders currently measure around 35 on the Rockwell scale and have proven strong, even substantially stronger than a modern Colt Single Action Army.

 He then goes on to explain the larger frame window, outside cylinder diameter and the fact that the bolt notches have an additional .010" of steel over them.

  Again I'm not suggesting heavy loads in these fine revolvers but find it remarkable that a couple of small, subtle differences can make for a sturdier, more robust, longer lasting revolver.

   Cholla

[yahoody]

"effectively double the chamber strength in .45 Colt. "

My point continues to be: "Pretty optimistic.  Stronger sure.  But all the Ubertis and the vast majority of the USFA guns use the same larger cylinder and window dimensions."

Early  1st gen Colts were malleable iron cylinders and a RC of 22-24.  Intermediate Colt guns with later formulation carbon steels went from RC24-30 over the next century.  Current Colt and some of the better imports, including Uberti using modern US chrome moly steel or similar European steel, RC test at a RC 30-35 and have as early as 2000 and before. 

So while the bolt cut and cylinder on a .45 added .010" on a USFA, and are indeed stronger than the originals Colt's....the USFA or Uberti cylinder's (which are one and the same for this conversation for steel quality and pressure) is no where near capable of handling "double the chamber pressures" of even the original .45 Colt loads.

SAMMI spec on the original .45 Colt is 14,000 psi.   44 Special has even more steel in the cylinder obviously and why Elmer used the 44 Special instead of a 45 Colt.  Even Mr. Pearce limits the useful pressure in a USFA .44 as 22,00psi there.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/Brian%20Pearce%20on%20the%2044%20Special.pdf

Don't get me wrong, the USFA SAAs are nice guns.  I have owned a number of them from the US gun's inception.  Love them.  But the original SAA design, even with an added .01" is still by comparison, to almost any modern revolver,  a weak and obsolete design.

I would think one would be hard pressed to find a traditional SAA from USFA chambered in .44 magnum.  Or any USFA 44 mag. besides the heavier framed Shooting Master.  Please correct me if that is my error.

From USFA at the time...on a "Shooting Master Model"

Manufacturer’s Description

The USFA Shooting Master is a single-action revolver chambered in .357 Magnum. Features include:
◾A beefed-up frame



and that was required for just the .357 that runs  @ 35,000 PSI.  .44 mag runs @ 37,000psi.

and a typical SAA frame size from USFA