Track of the Wolf Cumberland Bowie Knife

[1961MJS]

Hi everyone

I'm in Illinois for a while because my Mother is sick.  Since I'm here, I have a basement workshop to play in so this is where I work on putting scales on store bought blades.  

Track of the Wolf sells a Cumberland Bowie knife.  It is effectively a HEAVY DUTY Chef's knife.  



I didn't originally like the way that it looked and wanted a Natchez blade, but they're out.  I'm also working on both a 5 inch and 7 inch more traditional Bowie, hand filing the guards to fit is taking time...  After receiving the blade, I'm VERY impressed.  It appears that it will be a very useful knife to carry while hunting etc.  It's heavy enough to use as a cleaver.

Being named a "Cumberland" Bowie knife, I would guess that it's of an earlier vintage than a tradition clip point Bowie.  My guess would be that it is an early knife, well before the Old West time period.  I suspect that a Curly Maple or Birds eye Maple handle would be the most authentic to the blade, BUTTTTT (a large but), I don't really want to put Maple on it because Maple usually needs to be stained.  Would Walnut be authentic also?  I ASSUME that Mesquite would not be, but it sure would look good.

Thanks

[St. George]

Walnut would be correct - and so might Rosewood.

Scouts Out!

[1961MJS]

Hi

I also have some Osage orange from our back yard that I'm considering, but I'll probably use it on butcher knives etc.

Later

[ChuckBurrows]

First off the names applied to these blades are more salesman terms than an historic one. For instance the Natchez blade is a pattern that goes back to at least the 1200's amd the clip point Bowie style is at least as old as the early Vikings. There is a circa 900AD seax blade in the British Museum that is the spitting image of an 1840's Bowie. So basing time periods on such monikers is more or less a lesson in frustration. The Cumberland appellation is just that and the blade style can pretty well fit any era from the 1820'ds onward.

As for handle material walnut is more than appropriate as would be ash or maple or Osage. In Fact Noah Smithwick a famed maker of Bowies from Texas used Osage and the blade described is very similar to the Cumberland style.

Charley Eckhardt got to see one of Smithwick's original knives in 1953 as part of the collection of John R. Norris, a noted collector of the period. Charley was also smart enough to measure it all over and take meticulous notes. In his book, "Texas Tales Your Teacher Never Told You", Charley described what he saw and held that day.

"The Smithwick Bowie in Mr. Norris' possession had a blade ten and one-half inches long, two inches wide and a quarter-inch thick. The clip or 'gut-tickler' was three inches long and perfectly straight, not dished. The point was at the center line of the blade. It had neither fuller or ricasso...It had a perfectly straight iron crossguard, a full tang and a grip made of two pieces of light colored wood--possibly bois d' arc (Osage Orange or 'Hossapple')--which was fastened with two large rivets. The blade was marked near the guard with a large spread eagle and N. SMITHWICK in capital letters in a semicircle over the eagle.

[1961MJS]

Thanks Chuck

I knew from Carl Russell's book about Mountain Man Tools, that most Bowie knives are an older design.  Carl's book doesn't have anything like with the "Natchez" or "Cumberland" designs in it though.  I'll look at the Osage orange that I have and see if I have anything cut that I can use, otherwise, I'll use some fancy Walnut that I got from Jantz Supply.

Thanks again everyone.

[Mogorilla]

Will be interested in seeing the final product.   I agree, mesquite would look great on that.   I love the look of it when it is finished.   Question.  Is that a knife that lends itself to having a guard in place?   Due to tequilla and youthful stupidity, I severed the tendons to two fingers in my hand (stabing a knife without a guard into a chopping block and hand ran length of blade, ouch)  Anyway, like guards now.

[ChuckBurrows]

Mo - perhaps not so oddly that's supposedly the reason Rezin Bowie, (Jim's older brother and pronounced Reason) hada guard fitted to his Bowies. Guards of course were used long before the 1820's on may if not most fighting knives, but seemed to have more or less "disappeared" on most more regular knives, except daggers, during the 1700's - go figure..

[1961MJS]

Hi

I don't think it will need a guard, the handle is offset an inch from the blade (roughly).  I've been rust browning (Laurel Mountain / Canyon forget which) a few blades.  Since the easiest way to stop the reaction is with oil and steel wool, I've sliced and diced my hands some, but I'm not doing that much more.  The browned blades are "too pretty", I'm letting most of the other blades I have get weathered on their own.

I picked out a decent piece of fancy Walnut to use as the handle for this one.  I think I'll build a friend of mine one and use the Mesquite.  I need to drive the 60 miles down to Davis and pick up a few sets of scales from Jantz when I get back to Oklahoma.

Just my $0.02 and worth close to that. 

[Octagonal Barrel]

1961MJS,

I've looked at that blade more than a few times (along with the Natchez, which I agree I like even better).  I'd love a report on what you think of the blade itself, if you get around to testing its cutting and edge-retaining mettle (pun absolutely intended).

[1961MJS]

Hi again

No pictures yet, I need to get access to a grinding wheel and shine up the blade.  The cardboard sheath I worked with it in gave it some very small scratches.

I have a question on the finish.  I used a few coats of Linseed oil, and a couple of coats of Tung Oil Finish (as opposed to pure Tung Oil).  How shiny should the wood on an authentic Bowie knife be for 1850 to 1870?  I don't have any ideas on where to even look for something like that.  I read Carl Russel's book on Mountain Man equipment and even it isn't THAT detailed.  Even though I used the $20 Walnut scales, I think I'll give it a good going over with #0000 steel wool and leave it matted unless I get advise to keep it shiny.

Thanks

[ChuckBurrows]

How shiny should the wood on an authentic Bowie knife be for 1850 to 1870?  I don't have any ideas on where to even look for something like that.

If you are interested in original Bowies the following book is IMO a must have with 520 pages of info and color photos

The Bowie Knife: Unsheathing an American Legend Hardcover – October 1, 2004 by Norm Flayderman (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Bowie-Knife-Unsheathing-American/dp/193146412X

finishes will run the gamut from rough to finely finished (I go to 4-600 and finish with wax for a low sheen shine which is close to the upper end originals  I have examined) much depends on who made it - Sheffield import, high end American cutler, local blacksmith, farmer, et al and the type of wood.

PS to stop the reaction of the browning or bluing use house hold ammonia followed by a good wash with hot soapy water and then oil (I use flaxseed oil which is food grade linseed oil) or a good paste wax - it's what most of the better Muzzlestuffer gunmakers use as well as the majority of the guys makings Damascus knives as well as those of us who age our blade and other metal parts.

[1961MJS]

If you are interested in original Bowies the following book is IMO a must have with 520 pages of info and color photos

The Bowie Knife: Unsheathing an American Legend Hardcover – October 1, 2004 by Norm Flayderman (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Bowie-Knife-Unsheathing-American/dp/193146412X

finishes will run the gamut from rough to finely finished (I go to 4-600 and finish with wax for a low sheen shine which is close to the upper end originals  I have examined) much depends on who made it - Sheffield import, high end American cutler, local blacksmith, farmer, et al and the type of wood.

PS to stop the reaction of the browning or bluing use house hold ammonia followed by a good wash with hot soapy water and then oil (I use flaxseed oil which is food grade linseed oil) or a good paste wax - it's what most of the better Muzzlestuffer gunmakers use as well as the majority of the guys makings Damascus knives as well as those of us who age our blade and other metal parts.

My daughter used that book as some kind of catalog.  I've ordered some deer antlers from a place called Promised Land Tannery and will eventually get to make a few more Bowie knives.  I think I'll try a hidden tang with wood handle and brass guard and pommel, AFTER I try a plain old antler job.  The antler with the rosette looks somewhat easier.

Later

[1961MJS]

Hi

I have gotten the handle attached to the Cumberland Bowie and have finished the medium priced Walnut Burl handle from Jantz Supply.  I need to put together a sheath for this knife soon.  Leaving the knife in its shipping cardboard has lead me to refinish the blade...  I use it as my letter opener because I'm still finishing a bunch of Green River blades right now. 

What sort of sheath would be decently authentic for a Cumberland knife?

I own  Plains Indian Knife Sheaths: Materials, Design & Construction by Alex Kozlov, so I have access to various Plains type designs.  I would use a thicker leather backer rather than Rawhide I think.  I MIGHT be convinced to try beading at some point for this knife, but I need something I can work out a little quicker.

I'm not sure a Mexican Loop Holster would look good, and I don't think it's what I would pick for this knife.  I suppose I could just make a plain sheath on the order of a Slim Jim Holster.

What does the forum recommend?

Thanks

[St. George]

The Plains Indian style is always good - either plain or with tacks, since the beadwork takes time - it would appear appropriate to the time frame of use.

A Mexican Loop style is a modern affectation.

Scouts Out!

[Camano Ridge]

There are a couple of ways to go depending on if you wanted it to be more pioneer or more Indian influence. Crazy crow site has some styles that would work. Below is a picture of one done by a master, Chuck Burrows. Hope he does not mind but it is very apropros to what you are doing.

[ChuckBurrows]

A Mexican Loop style is a modern affectation.
Scouts Out!

reckon it depends on how you define modern. The one I based my pattern on was from a photo in a Texas Ranger Museum calendar from some years ago and was worn IIRC by Jack Hayes circa 1900. Here's the image.


Don't mind at all Camano - while that is one apropos style (instead of beadwork you could use spots or tacks on the upper bands) or take a look at my site and see if something strikes you fancy - be sure and check out all the Galleries if so,,,

[MJN77]

A Mexican Loop style is a modern affectation.

Where did you get that idea? Company D, Texas Rangers, early 1890s. Front row, second from left has a "modern" loop style sheath.


Better look.


The man third from left in the front row, Captain Frank Jones, was killed in the line of duty on June 30, 1893, so that pretty much dates the photo as before that date and decidedly not "modern".

[1961MJS]

Hi

I finally got the handle to where I wanted it.  I put on quite a few coats of Low Gloss Tung Oil, but the coats are very thin.  I need to take a picture outside.

Later

[MJN77]

That looks great.

[Camano Ridge]

Good looking knife. Now it's time to go to work on the sheath.