Parts to restore a Snider/Enfield

[Gabriel Law]

I have a Snider/Enfield III that has been cut off for'd of the rear barrel band.  I would like to restore it to it's original length stock, so I need the forward band with the swivel integral, and a nose piece.  This rifle has blued steel hardware.  I also need the steel ramrod too.

[pony express]

I wonder if IMA might have any parts available from the Nepal stash they have.

[Niederlander]

Yep, they've got at least some of it.

[Blair]

Most of the Nepal copied firearms are base off of the Second Pattern P-1853 Enfield. The bands are solid oval and held in place by band springs.

Gabriel Law says he has a "Snider/Enfield III". Am I correct to assume this would be a Snider based off of a Third Pattern Enfield?
There is also a Fourth Pattern, these were the interchangeable P-1853's
My best,
Blair

[Gabriel Law]

Here's what my rifle is supposed to look like.  As I mentioned, it has had the stock cut just forward of the rear band and the forward one, the nose piece, and the ramrod are missing.  This is a worthy rifle and has an almost mint bore...it is crying for restoration.

[Blair]

Gabriel,

Can you post photos of what you have?
Photos of the left side lock area, left side rear band and rear sight area, and the trigger guard rear sling swivel area.
All of these will help identify your Snider better.
I maybe able to direct you to some proper sources that will help you restore this firearm to its original configuration.

The photo you posted looks like a Fourth Pattern (interchangeable pattern) Short Infantry Rifle of the P-1861 Pattern. (just my guess at this point)
My best,
Blair

[Gabriel Law]

You bet.  I'll take pictures this afternoon.  Thanks for helping out.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here's what my rifle is supposed to look like.  As I mentioned, it has had the stock cut just forward of the rear band and the forward one, the nose piece, and the ramrod are missing.  This is a worthy rifle and has an almost mint bore...it is crying for restoration.

That looks like a 2-band short rifle, as issued to sergeants and rifle regiments.  Rattlesnakejack has one with the long sword bayonet. Mine is a Mk III 3-band rifle with a spike bayonet.

[Gabriel Law]

I'm happy to provide more if it'll help.

[Niederlander]

That does look like an EXCELLENT candidate to get shooting again!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I agree! That is much nicer than mine except for the amputation.  I see a bayonet lug for the YATAGHAN sword bayonet, so it is a two band rifle. The III on top of the action says it is a Mk III action with improved locking features and constructed of steel.

Even today, Rifle Regiments "Fix----Swords" (not fix-bayonets)  Often Infantry regiments have the daily Duty Sergeant carrying a lengthy bayonet as a badge of office. Both holdovers from the Victorian army.

[Niederlander]

Make sure you take pictures during the rebuild process, and share them with the rest of us.  In fact, I think we should have a thread stickied just for the various rebuild projects a lot of us are doing.

[Gabriel Law]

Once I have the parts in hand, I will take a photo series of the restoration.  I see it (so far) as being straight forward, and am looking forward to it.

Anyone know where I can buy a sword/bayonette for the old girl?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Talk to Rattlesnake Jack.  He told me there is a reproduction made for a french rifle, I think, that is close. It needs the muzzle ring reamed out a bit.

[Blair]

Gabriel,

Check with;
Terry Kirkpatrick
Antique Guns and Parts of VA.
199 Mill Village Circle
Clarksville, VA.23927
The last phone # I have for him is 434-374-4112

Tell him you have a P-1869 MK III Snider Short Infantry Rifle
Tell him you Need.
a steel fore end cap and screw,
front barrel band with screw and swivel
Ram rod
Bayonet
And see if he has any wood from the rear barrel band forward.
If he does not then check with,
Dunlap Woodcrafters
1415 Wolftrap Run RD.
Vienna, VA. 22182
703-631-5137
Hope this helps.
My best,
Blair 

[Gabriel Law]

Thank you very much Blair.  I'll call Monday morning!!!

[RattlesnakeJack]

Looks like a decent example worthy of restoration, especially if the bore is as good as you indicate .......

The "DC" in diamond shaped border stamp is the standard Dominion of Canada property mark for that era, and the numbers likely denote that this particular rifle was issued to the 22nd Battalion, "The Oxford Rifles", of the Active Militia of Canada .... with the 317 being the "stand of arms number" (i.e. rack number) assigned to this rifle and its related accoutrements.  Being a "Rifles" unit, all Other Ranks were likely armed with the 2-band  Short Rifle and its Pattern 1856 "yataghan" sword bayonet ..... whereas in regular Infantry units, only Sergeants would receive the Short Rifle and sword bayonet, while all Other Ranks in such units were issued the 3-band Long Rifle and triangular-bladed Pattern 1853 socket bayonet.  (These bayonet patterns date from the period of muzzle-loading Enfield Rifle Muskets, but were used with the Mark I and II breech-loading conversions of those rifles utilizing the Snider breech system, as well as the Mark III Snider-Enfield rifles which were manufactured from scratch ...)

Here is a young member of a Canadian Active Militia Rifles unit (in this case, the 41st  Brockville Battalion of Rifles) with yataghan sword bayonet affixed to his Short Rifle -


Original Pattern 1856 bayonets can still be found quite readily .... but a decent example with a serviceable scabbard will undoubtedly cost at least $300 ....   A more affordable alternative would be one of the reproduction Pattern 1856 bayonets (usually made in India) which are sold by Civil War Sutlers .... they are offered because, as you may know, Enfield-pattern Rifle Muskets were the second most common firearm used in the American Civil War and are thus very popular with ACW re-enactors .....  Dixie Gun Works is a good source for such a reproduction P'1856 bayonet - about the best price available and comes with a repro of the proper British bayonet frog for this bayonet and scabbard, whereas most other vendors sell the frogs separately - http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3870  -


Such a reproduction bayonet might require a bit of hand fitting to get it to fit properly and snugly.  Also, the original grip scales on these bayonets were actually black highly-compressed leather with a finely checkered surface ....

(Some aren't as finely checkered as this ....)

However, in my experience the grip scales on the reproduction bayonets are usually made of wood and the checkering is not really fine enough - so they don't look "correct" .....


Although I do have some original P'1856 bayonets for my rifles, I bought one of these reproduction bayonets from Dixie a number of years ago (mainly to get a serviceable scabbard for an original without a scabbard) and it had much coarser checkering on its wooden grip scales than seen in the above photo.  I played around with them, doubling up the checkering lines, and then stained them black (with leather dye) and the result isn't too bad -


As for the other parts you need for your restoration project, I highly recommend you join British Militaria Forums, where I am a member - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/directory .....  Despite the name, this site is almost exclusively dedicated to discussion of 19th Century British military firearms, and has a dedicated Snider-Enfield Forum .... and also a "Yard Sale" forum where you could make known your wants and needs for parts ....

[Lord Eoin MacKenzie]

Rattlesnake Jack;  Sir, this is somewhat off topic.   wHat is the recoil like in the snder or martini henry with GAF loads?   My doctor told me NO high power rifles/shotguns,   So before I buy , How much do they Kick?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

With approximately service loads, I find mine no worse than a 12 gauge with field loads. There are some options;

1. Load a .58 roundball over something like a 2/3 load with some cushioning between powder & ball. (I'm not sure about POI?)

2.  Lee has a slightly lighter than normal (470Gr.) minie mould. As well, they have a larger .578 diameter option. Load down, of course.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-minie-bullet-molds/

3.  Slip or lace on butt pad. Most Sniders would be short enough to accomodate a pad.

[River City John]

I believe Guns Garrett will have some insight into shooting a short rifle with .577 loads . . .


RCJ