Altering my Shotshell belt to get the shells pointing further out from my body?

[bisognor]

Howdy Folks,

I was thinking about configurng or altering my shot shell belt so the top of the shells stick out further away from my body.

Is there restrictions related to shot shell angles and such?  If so, are these rules explained in the shooters handbook?

If adjusting the angle the shells sit is legal, do any of you folks have any ideas on how to push the top of my belt out a bit to give greater clearance for my fingers to do a side grab on the shells?  At the same time, I don't want the belt to move at all.

Thanks for the help,
"Left Eye" Bobby B.
SASS #100965

[Fingers McGee]

Yes, there are restrictions.  Adjusting the angle is not allowed.

Shooters handbook page 3:  ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it
would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television.

Shooters handbook, page 11:
• Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the
shooter's person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be
safely staged as required by stage instructions. Leather belt slide ammo loops are
acceptable; however, shotgun shell slides may not be worn over shotgun loops on an ammo
belt. Shotgun loops must be in a single row. Rifle and revolver ammunition may not be
carried in a shotshell loop. No ammunition may be carried in the mouth, ears, nose,
cleavage, or any other bodily orifice.
• Bandoleers, cartridge belts, and pouches must be of traditional design (e.g., bandoleers must
be loose and not secured in any way to prevent movement). Modern drop pouches, combat
style shotgun loops, wrist or forearm bandoleers, and such are not allowed. Pouches shall
have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the
contents for rapid retrieval. .
• Cartridge loops must not have a metal or plastic liner. However, the entire loop may be
made of metal.
• Shotgun ammo loops may not accommodate more than two rounds per loop, and
rifle/revolver ammo loops shall accommodate only one round per loop.
• Ammo belts must be worn so all ammo is positioned at or below the belly button.
• Shotgun ammo loops must conform to the shooters contour (i.e., not tilt out from the belt).

[bisognor]

Thanks,

That last bullet does not leave much doubt. 

Maybe I need to work on a top grab.
Maybe try the belt at diffent levels on my body.

[Dan Gerous]

Hmmm. How to push tghe top of your shells further away. I know! Gain weight! I've noticed my belly tends to push the top of my jeans over!

[Red Cent]

This belt has been approved by the SASS rules committee. The first belt was made for a cross draw so that the rounds would not interfere with the draw.



Here is a "normal" belt.

[Red Cent]

The normal belt was made for Red River Ray, one of the east coast's top shooters. The rounds are separated to have the shells ready to insert into a double barrel. Y

[Slowhand Bob]

A very good design.  Once those loops are placed that high on the belt, they are presented way out there and from there you can add more legal room by gaming the 'leather belt slide' wordage to add even more.  I have actually seen a couple of shooters, including myself, who have worn a plain belt up top with 'slides' added to increase bulk/clearance.  Red has pretty much incorporated this concept into his shot shell belt, those shell loops now have three layers of leather between them and your belly. 

[Litl Red]

This belt has been approved by the SASS rules committee. The first belt was made for a cross draw so that the rounds would not interfere with the draw.



Here is a "normal" belt.

That's some beautiful work.   It also shows a somewhat unique holster design.  Have you thought about taking out a patent (or do you copyright stuff like that) on that?   As popular as it might become, it might pay for your new spotting scope.

[Red Cent]

Before I entered the SASS arena, I had searched for the best holster. This holster is really an evolution of thought since my IPSC days. I started IPSC with a Chapman High Ride. Still have it. Worked very well.
When cowboy came along, the visions returned. Slowhand can vouch for that. Ernie Hill produced some reverse holsters that looked 100mph. Ted Blocker. G. William Davis. and others.
I used to have "minimal" holsters for my SASS handguns. Enough leather to hold the gun and enough to provide stiffness. The bunch called them bikini holsters.
I have sent these holsters to Texas, Idaho, Va, and some other places. The shotgun belt is kinda new. Doc Noper out of Michigan started the style. RRR says it works very well. I made one for Twin in WV. He recently won the WV state championship. RRR won, I believe Georgia State and went to the Nationals in Illinois and got Top Overall.
Seems as they do good.

[Horseapples]

Guys I am new to the forum and don't want to upset anyone while I get a feel for the site but I have to say I am puzzled.  My interest, while i do shoot a little, is in the beauty of old west gun leather, horse gear etc. rather than cowboy action shooting although I have dabbled briefly and unsuccessfully at it.

While I know that the 1876 prarie belt issued to troopers for 45-70 ammo consisted of a canvas sleeve stitched over a leather belt in the same kinda way as your shotgun belt it was, unlike your shotgun belt, a tight fit over the belt, the loops were full thickness and there was no stopper sewn under the loops.  To my eye its comparing apples and oranges with the obvious intention of NOT reproducing the "old West" gear and canting the ammo out from the body exactly as the stated rules say not to, the bikini holsters mentioned are, to my limited understanding, modern competition rigs and nothing like old west or even B movie holsters designed to carry and protect revolvers without the need for hammer thongs or retaining straps.

If someone would be kind enough to to explain what I am missing I would appreciate the heads up.

[Slowhand Bob]

Explain, sure.  Just two totally different concepts for two totally different shooters being allowed for in the same game.  Over the years many of the rules were were gamed around the edges, staying just inside of legal while stretching the limits of acceptability.  Add to this the idea of large leather manufacturers, great financial supporters also, getting into the fray with constantly improved?? products and suddenly things do start looking very different while still staying loosely close to the original rules.  I have been criticized on the SASS Wire for describing ways that one can legally cheat the shotshell belts BUT if it isnt illegal, it is not cheating and the powers that be allowed each new interpretation, one by one, that makes these new products legal when made in combination.  By the way, I do not have the link BUT some years back a supposedly period photo surfaced of 'fine gentleman' dressed for a hunt and guess what, he was wearing a shotshell belt pulled all the way up to under his armpits!  Had someone had that photo available back when the 'bra rule' was put into affect, that rule might have been different now??   Also remember that in the beginning cowboy was being shot without all the nice period options we have today and I would bet that those first matches looked a lot less period than does the ones today. Play the game your way and just squint reeeal tightly when passing someone whom you feel lacks the proper reverence for period correct-ness!

[Horseapples]

Hmmmm, I seeeeee.....

Would it be perhaps fairer to those who like the traditional gear to have a "spirit of the original" class for them and an "open" class for the squinty guys so that traditionalists don't write themselves out of any chance of winning? Or does this already happen?

[Camano Ridge]

Horseapples, for the more traditionalist there is NCOWS. NCOWS caters to those that preffer more period correctness and has stricter PC guide lines. CAS tends to like the cowboy persona but allows some leeway away from period correctness and tends to promote a more competetive atmosphere.

[Red Cent]

I'm not sure if you trying to make a point or what.

[Cliff Fendley]

Hmmmm, I seeeeee.....

Would it be perhaps fairer to those who like the traditional gear to have a "spirit of the original" class for them and an "open" class for the squinty guys so that traditionalists don't write themselves out of any chance of winning? Or does this already happen?

Or shoot NCOWS instead of SASS if your a traditionalist.

[Slowhand Bob]

SASS offers a large venue of acceptance but alas, everyone tends to squabble when put into a pen together.  I really think SASS went down a bothersome road when they started splitting everyone up with so many non shooting style related categories.  Just throw everyone into the pen together and ignore the b!+c#1ng, its gonna take place anyhows.  I really like the look of reality mixed with the modern comforts.  I want my boots and shoes lasted, I want my modern 'Cool' shirt to be made in a period pattern and I want my leather to be a combination of modern tweeks and PC appearance.

[Mongo]

I have seen some SASS shooters use shotgun slides placed over the revolver/rifle shell loops of a cartridge belt (wearing the loops forward) to give them a little more clearance from the body.  Not illegal, but it might have some labeling you as a "gamer".

[Litl Red]

I have seen some SASS shooters use shotgun slides placed over the revolver/rifle shell loops of a cartridge belt (wearing the loops forward) to give them a little more clearance from the body.  Not illegal, but it might have some labeling you as a "gamer".

That's SOP for many who're pushing to overthrow rules they don't agree with.   The tactic has long been to jam the local match administration who really don't want to run off anybody.   Later, the tactic switches to "all the local matches allow it". 

"Not illegal"   The latest rules say your rig shouldn't place the shells away from the body.  And that's obviously what they're attempting to control.   Need a more extensive rule?  When was that ever not the case. 

[Red Cent]

"........shotgun shell slides may not be worn over shotgun loops on an ammo
belt."

No rule about the pistol loops.