belt question

[Boothill Bob]

Howdy pards.
Was a while since I posted anything. I really hope you all is ok.
I'm about to make me a new money belt of 4-5 oz veg tan. I just want to know what you prefer 2.5 or 3 inch belt and why?
//BhB

[1961MJS]

Hi

I need to go see one of the more local leather workers and see what fits.  When you guys all answer Bob's question, it would be helpful to mention what shape you are.  Personally, I'm sort of Buford T. Justice, gut, not much to set on.  I currently own a Fair Weather Christian belt, but it slips up some.  it's a 2 inch wide belt.

Later

[Cliff Fendley]

3 1/2 inch is my personal preference. The wide soft belt is just more supple and comfortable, almost like wearing a back brace for my poor old back.

I sell more 3 inch money belts than any other width, 3 1/2 inch being the close second. I seldom ever get an order for anything less than 3 inch belts and never recall making or getting an order for a money belt less than 3 inch.

[Trailrider]

I have made cartridge-money belts (folded lengthwise and stitched at the top and one end) in 2, 2-1/2 and 3-inch widths, depending on the customer's request. Two-and-a-half is probably the most common as it is wide enough to distribute weight, but will still slide through the belt loop of most Mexican loop holsters. A 3 or 3-1/2" cartridge-money belt intended for use separately from a holster and for long BP rifle cartridges is also good. I used to make belts for a friend who was a licensed Professional Hunter in several African countries...before it got more dangerous from poachers, guerrillas (the kind with AK-47's, not King Kong relatives...), and disease. He packed big doubles chambered for everything from .400-.450 to .500 Nitro Express x 3-1/2", and liked the wider belts.

Those with a serious case of Done-lop's syndrome may prefer narrower belts. Only problem for some of them is if their syndrome is too marked, they may have trouble finding the belt beteen their overhangs! 

[Cliff Fendley]

Many of the newly made holsters wont but most any custom holsters made from tracings and measurements of original mexican loop holsters will all accommodate the wider belts as from what I see most original cartridge money belts were around 3 inch. Much less than that starts getting pretty narrow considering the billet and tongue are usually of 1 1/2 and most of the bullet loops seem to have been made from a 1 inch wide strap.

This one pictured below was done from measurements from an original F A Meanea holster that a collector was nice enough to let me study. The original also has a 3 1/2 wide money belt. I would have loved to purchased the Meanea holster but his price tag of over 3000 dollars for the rig prevented that.



These holsters were made from the same patterns



Here is a 3 inch wide belt on a holster copy of an original FA Meanea, this holster will take a belt 4 inches wide.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Superb work, Cliff.

[Graveyard Jack]

Yes, beautiful work!

So is it the consensus that 4-5oz works well for money belts? Is it common to stitch the cartridge loops through both thicknesses or is one sufficient?

[Camano Ridge]

Craig, it depends on what you are trying to achive. If you stitch through both sides when doing cartridge loops you effectively close off the belt at the begining of the loops and limmit the number of Double Eagle Gold pieces you can carry in your money belt. I normaly only stitch through the front side. Looking at Cliffs I do not see stitches on the back of the belts o it looks like he may do the same.

[ChuckBurrows]

Yes, beautiful work!

So is it the consensus that 4-5oz works well for money belts? Is it common to stitch the cartridge loops through both thicknesses or is one sufficient?

FWIW - of the couple of hundred original or so money belts from the 1870's - 1920's I've examined the vast majority used 3/4 oz leather with several using an even lighter weight of 2/3 oz (you can tell these lighter weights ones in old photos because the belt sags where the holster hangs). In all I have seen about 30 or 40 made of thicker leather in the 4-5 oz range and they all dated from the very late 1890's or post 1900 era - this thickness has become more popular today apparently due to CAS shooters - so IMO if you want to keep as PC/HC as possible use 3/4 oz including the loops which as Cliff noted are mostly 1" wide. Then again work with the customer and their desires...

As for width - the majority of originals I've examined are in the 3-3 1/2" size with a few narrower and not until the post 1890's era do you begin to see the real wide 4-5" width often with multiple size loops for rifle and pistol cartridges that seem to be especially favored by some of the SW border peace officers such as the Arizona Rangers.

When talking with a customer one of the things I note is not only the belly size but the hips - if snake hipped whether there is a belly above or not wider sizes can often be problematic due to downward slippage. I'm built thus and found any style belt wider than 3 1/4" have such slippage problems, especially with the slick inside of a money belt so my personal belts are all in the 3" range max - on wider belts I've used attached suspenders for myself as well as others and yes it's PC/HC at least on big bore rifle cartridge belts since I've seen several originals using such to most likely distribute weight between the hips and shoulder. I also long ago noted that most military filed use belts are 2 3/4" wide and figure some where along the line this became a standard for a good reason.

as always others mileage will vary......

I have seen a few stitched through both sides belts made in the manner of a money belt, but they are not common based on the existing data base of originals and photos - some were decidedly repairs, but some were definitely planned that way - most likely for the comfort factor that the thinner weight belts offer since they tend to mold to one's shape, but for some one who wasn't interested in packing anything in between the layers of the belt as done with a true money belt.

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks for that info Chuck.

I generally try and keep the thickness pretty close to 4 oz and can live with it a little either way. 3-4 or 4-5 will work depending on customer and how PC I want it.

In the photos above the two wider belts are 3-4 oz and the bottom picture of the 3 inch belt is 4-5 oz. You can tell from the photo how that little difference has the belt in the lower photo stiffer and how the others will almost fold. The two thinner ones are more PC compared to originals I've studied.

As Chuck said most original ones seam to be under 4 oz. People are built a little different today than the pictures of the cowboys (basically kids) of the 19th century. With some of our midsections today of us aging cowboys I think the belts seem to work being up to the 4 oz or better so as our belly doesn't fold the top of the belt over with any dunlap syndrome.

For those that don't know what that is it's when your belly has done lapped over your belt, a condition I am constantly trying to avoid with limited success.

I have made them with leather as thick as 5-6 oz but the results are more of a modern feeling heavy double layered belt rather than the comfy supply PC money belt. Thickness boils down to the customers preference though but if you want it PC make it thin.

I sew all of my loops and billets through just the one side as that is the way the originals I've had the pleasure of studying were assembled. I have seen some stitching go through both sides in what appeared to have been a repair. I was not aware that they were made otherwise but since Chuck has seen more originals than I probably ever will apparently some were sewn through both sides. It seems to me that would have defeated the purpose of the money belt though.

[Cliff Fendley]

Superb work, Cliff.

Thanks Skeeter