UPDATED: First Spencer--Is This Normal?

[Coal Creek Griff]

The other day I received the Armi Sport Spencer carbine (56-50) that I bought through Gun Broker.  Buying it pretty much broke the bank, so it will be a while before I can actually shoot it.  I thought that it looked pretty good in the photos, although I've never actually seen one in person before.  I escpecially liked the look of the wood compared to other photos I've seen.

Here is the first of my questions.  There were a couple of spots that seemed kind of rough to me and I don't know if that's normal.  Take a look at the photos.

One area is on the upper breach block.  The rough area comes into contact with the Stabler cut off and seems to make the action a little rough.  It looks to me like someone ground or "polished" it before.  Should I try to polish it further or is there an issue?  The corresponding spot on the cut off is also kind of rough.  A small amount of lube helped a bit, but I wonder if it needs more smoothing.

The second area is the mainspring.  The whole think looks like it has been ground but not polished.  Again, is that normal?  The trigger pull isn't bad, but I'm inclined to polish the spring to reduce stress areas.  Thoughts?

Thanks for the support, folks.  I think I'm going to like this gun...

CC Griff

[Blair]

C C Griff,

These are rather rough Machining marks within your photos.
Sorry to say, but it is pretty much standard operating procedures with Chiappa products. It is also sad to say that Chiappa wont listen to their customers when it comes making improvements to their product line.
After all? Why should they, if people keep buying their garbage?
Sorry, my best,
Blair

[Two Flints]

Hi Blair,

A few years ago I sent a letter to Chiappa in Italy with suggestions from the SSS membership on what could be done at their factory to make the Spencer a better shooter out of the box . . . which would also increase their sales . . . but, I don't think we were taken seriously.  See the link below.

Just don't know if the new Spencers have been improved with any of our suggested changes from back then.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,23247.0.html

Thanks for your post

Two Flints

[Coal Creek Griff]

Would it be wise to polish those parts?  I'm afraid the spring will fail if I leave it alone, but I also don't want to take off too much metal.

CC Griff

[Herbert]

Yes polish the spring or it will surly break,if it does break the Pedersolie Sharps main spring will fit with a little grinding of the pin and is a very good spring

[Blair]

C C Griff,

If it were me... I would send it back directly to Chiappa.
But, that is my way of dealing with very poor quality control.
My best,
Blair

[Coal Creek Griff]

I polished the mainspring and removed at least most of the grinder marks.  See the attached photo.

CC Griff

[KEN S]

Don't send it back...you're getting there.  polish the main spring LENGTHWISE.  use emery paper on a piece of wool,  NO rotary tools .    you want ALL the marks to go the long way.  that's where they break, and it will...
   now...bevel all the edges too.  dremel the edges  by rounding off the top, not the inside.  then  use the sandpaper to smooth lengthwise...
     the ramp is rough...so, put emery paper, start rough and work to very fine, around a dowel.  then, watch TV and
sand away.  the smoother the better..

     Look, you don't want to spend money for a new spring, but it is an easy fix if you have to...so you won't harm the gun.
56 50 can be cut from a 50 70... I shoot an original 56 50 and it's very accurate.
     hang in there,  you're making the gun yours.....we all do that...Ken
 

[PvtGreg]

Coal creek Griff,  You bought an Armi-sport, right?

I have a theory about that upper block.  I've had an armi-sport spencer for a while now - the one problem that I have had, and a lot of others here have to is what I call "break through".  This is the condition where the lever and block assembly breaks past the trigger bar and rotates out the the chamber area. 

I have fixed this a couple of ways, but it still happens - usually during a sass match of course.  I was looking at you picture of the upper block and it hit me that the deep grove could have been an attempt of fixing the break through problem.  The deal abrupt grove would catch the trigger bar better in my opinion.  This looks like a user mod to me.

I would be curious what others think. 

[rbertalotto]

that is period correct machine tool marks.

you think they were any better in the 1800s?

i'm sure they might have been worse and the folks had to work through them just like now....

[Herbert]

They were much better quality in the 1860s,machine marks and unpolished spring like shown would have resulted in rejection by the inspectors

[KEN S]

I didn't want to say that,,but....I have an 1865 Burnside 56 50 carbine fitted with the centerfire block.  it feeds and ramps like a watch....I agree that in 1865, the guns we see today would not have passed inspection.
    That's why I opted for an original....
  possibly a gunsmith is needed now....good luck...Ken

[Coal Creek Griff]

No doubt the originals were made with more attention to detail. There was much more hand fitting involved and generally higher production standards in the 19th century firearms industry. I bought this gun used, expecting to do some light gunsmithing. Actually, I do some smoothing to nearly all of my guns (except antiques).  This one will likely take more than average and I rather enjoy that aspect. I could barely afford this one and likely would not have been able to find a good original in my price range. It all has to do with balance and trade-offs.  My original question was an effort to make sure that the prior owner didn't grind away half of those parts. I didn't want some ham-handed Dremel-artist ruining it. I want to be the first ham-handed Dremel-artist to work on it. 

I smoothed the spring and did some light smoothing of the breach block too. I'll wait until I have ammo (or dummy rounds) and decide how much more to do on that. With a good cleaning and lubrication,  the action cycles fairly smoothly (empty).  Time will tell how much more work I will enjoy putting into this gun.

As I mentioned, I've never had the chance to even hold a Spencer before. If handling it is any indication, I'm going to really like this gun. Thanks to those who have gone before me. I've learned a lot from reading these back pages and I have a lot to learn.

CC Griff

[Blair]

C C Griff,

You are "now" telling us that this was a previously owned firearm?
Don't you think this would have been important information for those that may reply to your quest for help?
Blair

[Coal Creek Griff]

I'm sorry, Blair.  I guess I thought that, since I started by saying that it was a Gun Broker purchase, that would be understood.  I had also talked about it in a previous topic (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,52997.0.html).  I kind of forgot that I hadn't made that as clear in this thread.  Doesn't everyone keep track of everything I write?

CC Griff