Reloading the .38S&W Questions

[St8LineLeatherSmith]

I have been reading random threads concerning the.38 S&W cartridge and I have some questions regarding reloading since I have never reloaded this cartridge I have a few questions  regarding load capacities and balistics

I have read where guys are using 9 mm and .380 projectiles which are lighter than the standard .38 S&W projectile which enables to up the powder charge.
I have also heard of guys seating round balls in the case
I was just wondering the advantages and disadvantages
I also read that .38 spl brass cut down can be used
I also know that you can use .9 mm dies to reload this cartridge.
please post any useful info below.
Thanks!

[pony express]

The standard bullet for them is 146gr and about .360 or .361 diameter. 38 S&W cases are slightly bigger diameter than 38 special. Someone gave me some made from shortened 38 spl cases, and I had ignition problems with them, I think maybe because of slightly off center hits on the primer, but maybe it was something else, bad primers or something. If you don't have the ignition problems, then they should work ok, they will swell a bit near the base, but at the pressures these are loaded to it's not going to rupture the case. I think using 9mm bullets is probably just a convenience thing, not for higher performance. Same with using the 9mm dies, just a way to get it done for something you don't shoot all that much, and not have to spend extra to get a few rounds loaded.

[St8LineLeatherSmith]

Ok I have been shopping at TOTW and came up with these two components
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/139/3/CASE-38-SW-PACK-100
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/128/1/BULLET-38-140-H
I think this starline brass should hold up well and should get me a decent start with the 50 pmc cartridges not sure about the bullet DIA but I think this is what I need or no?

Also: concerning recommended powder charges on the heavy side HOLEY BLACK ONLY of course
well on second thought I have some 777 I need to use up so some load data for that would be good too

Dies
The lee carbides seem to do a pretty good job  and this set comes with the case holder
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1216/3/LEE-DIE-38-SW

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Cartridges of the World 3d ed,. shows 145 gr. as factory. It shows the bullet diameter as .359, just two thou over that of the .38 Spl. As there is a bit of leeway, i just went with an unsized bullet from the RCBS mould.

There is also the .38/200 that the Brits worked up FOR STRONG REVOLVERS ONLY. it was replicated in the US as the .38 Police, also for strong revolvers. For our purposes, stay with the lighter bullets.  I tried  the Lyman 120 gr. TC, unsized, designed for the Luger but it wasn't accurate at all.  Now I use the RCBS 38-140-Cowboy RNFP, also unsized.  It is as close as I could get to the factory original.

For an old top-break, I'd not feel comfortable using 777.  I use FFg, or miniscule charges of Bullseye, but I think you should stick with BP unless you have a strong designed pistol in good shape.

As for 9mm Luger dies, they were not ideal, but did get loads made, but as an expedient. If you have time and funds, and are loading lots, get the proper stuff!
#

[Cuts Crooked]

I've loaded 38S&W made from 38 special brass with no problem. I use unsized Snakebite boolits loaded over 3F, which gives more than acceptable accuracy and recovered slugs show good rifling engagement.

[Shotgun Franklin]

It's been years but, S&W Brass is not hard to find. I used unsized .38 125 gr bullets, they shot great. I used .38 Spl dies and just lightly neck sized the case, enough to hold the bullet in recoil.

[44caliberkid]

I use a 150 grain 38/357 SWC cast of pure lead from a Lee mould.  I used a universal decapping die and priming tool to reprime. Fill case with 3F, just to the bottom of the seated bullet.  Seat and crimp with a 38 Special die.  I don't size the bullet.  Works great for pocket pistol stages and I'm sure would cause some pain if used for defense.  Don't try to supercharge this round, that's why they made the 38  Special.

[brazosdave]

I do the same as the .44 Caliber kid, but i use the Lee .38 S & W die set.  Lot's of fun for target, but don't look for .38 spl performance.  I have 3 old break top S & W's in .38, they can be found cheaply and are loads of fun to shoot.  I use the Starline brass, and either 3ffg Goex or homemade presscake.

[St8LineLeatherSmith]

thanks for the information pardners
I have found that TOTW has the starline brass in .38"S&W and the reloading dies for a good price
so I am thinking I can compressm about 18 to 20 grains of  fffG Holey Black with a 125 GN .38" projectile  this might up the velocitey and give a few more foot pounds Ke short range
this is just me randomly thinking with no data at all in front of me.

[brazosdave]

don't know about getting 18 to 20 grains in that little case. I tried packing a few extra grains in, and all i got was a bulged cartridge that won't chamber.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Stateline; Fill one of your cases with loosely poured BP.  That will be the MAX that the case will reasonably handle. I don't have my notes handy, but it will be about 11-12 grains of 3Fg. A loose fill of a .38Special case is 22grains! (My service load of BP in the Spl is 18.5 gr. 3Fg.)

I don't think that you need any more powder for recreational use, and please don't try to suddenly disassemble your top-break with excessive loads

[St8LineLeatherSmith]

 Too late ,I already took it apart Sir Charles and put it back with no spare parts. My log in name is st8linegunsmith

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Too late ,I already took it apart Sir Charles and put it back with no spare parts. My log in name is st8linegunsmith

I was trying out some "weasel-words" to politely suggest not to overload the wee thing. 

Why just the other day i stood accused of driving a cascity Pard away with harsh words!

[brazosdave]

Breaktop Smiths and clones ain't too hard to take apart and put back together, I do use manuals for reference, but the best teacher for me was taking apart a single action to see why it wouldn't function right, then putting it back together.  What I'd do different next time:  prolly take pics of the process.   But i am not what you would call a gunsmith. 

[wildman1]

The max load for 38 S&W is 15 gs of 3f with a 145 g bullet. That was for a balloon head case. A more realistic load is about 10-11gs, that will be compressed in modern cases. wM1

[Dick Dastardly]

Whut WM1 said.  If'n ya want a Magnum, buy a Magnum.  Respect them old pistols.  10g of FFFg will kill the steel just fine.

DD-MDA

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Pard!

I'm one of the oddballs who has successfully loaded the 38 S&W using a 9mm boolit.  I'd MUCH rather use the right stuff, but it wasn't available.  I have just now, after over 10 yrs used up the ones I loaded with the .355" 115 gr projectiles.  I don't shoot it often, but I HAVE (twice) used it as a "Main Match" pistol at one of our monthly Scarlet Mask Vigilance Society's monthly shoot.   http://www.scarletmaskvigilancesociety.com/Members%20Page%201.html

Shooting steel badguys isn't the same as shooting defensively - which would require using the CORRECT components in a load.

The success comes from the fact that lead (softer is better when using BP as I'm sure ya know) obdturates (swells/deforms) into the grooves when the BP ignites and in the case of my particular revolver, an old Iver Johnson 4" barrel Top-Break, allows pretty good performance.  The bullets I used were wheelweight hard, not properly soft, but when I recovered a couple rounds I fired into a "volunteer" fencepost in my back yard, I saw that it HAD swelled at least partially so it did have proper spin and even perhaps sealing.  I was not able to determine if the pressure had actually allowed the lead to swell completely and seal the bore, but it was accurate enough for my needs.  And it rang steel properly with plenty of lovely white smoke and that unique BP perfumed smell.


As to the load, I was using Goex 3F and when I measured what charge was filling the case properly (before compression) it came out to about 12.7 grs.  I only measured for data recording purposes, since I basically fill up the case with BP, then place a bullet on top and compress the powder with the bullet base until it is to the right depth.  Then, a good, tight crimp and away we go!  (This works well for revolver and non-target loads, but for big-bore rifles, hunting loads, or precision shooting I would use a drop tube, settle the powder, use a wad, and NOT use the base of the bullet as the compression tool plug - I'd use a proper compression die.  As was mentioned, I would not recommend using that Trip7 powder in an old Top-Break - it might be too "energetic!"  No need to tempt fate, ya know.)

I do have one factory Winchester round that the projectile wasn't seated properly (or crimped) and the bullet escaped from the loaded case.  So, I now have one 146 gr pure lead projectile of the correct (or nearly so) diameter, about .360" with a primed case in which I will drop a load of 3F and re-crimp properly.  I will THEN have one proper 38 S&W BP round to compare to any more I will load in the future.

I hadn't mentioned it but I use a set of proper Lee 38 S&W dies so I'm not trying to use 9mm or any other dies to get the job done.

Whatever you use, have fun.

SHB