Cleaning "raw" veg tanned leather

Red Cent · July 19, 2014, 04:00:02 PM

Curious what you folks use. I just bought some Bar Keeper's Friend and it did remove some of the light grey areas but some slight "clouds" remain. Not a whole lot of them but a few. Couple on a holster, one or so on a belt. 'Course this is only apparent when I do the "natural" leather look. Seems the popular solution to the solution is oxalic acid. Salts of lemon. Savogran porch bleach. And, apparently , many more aliases.
Members on another site are of the opinion that it is my water. I suppose all tap or well water contains traces of iron. I must confess I did not give the water serious consideration until I looked at my process. I am guilty of using the same water a time or two more. And I have well water that is tested every few years and there is no taste detectable iron or sulphur in the water. We do have very good well water. Tastes just like good water. One member commented that he pours distilled water in a small pan to wet mold a holster then tosses it.
One member commented that he wore nitrate gloves. I am not sure how often or how long.
All of the comments are creditable and good advice.
What lengths do you go to for the unblemished natural leather look?

Don Nix · July 19, 2014, 06:15:39 PM

Try to always clean water first and foremost. But I always use Oxalic Acid to bleach and clean up the leather .

Red Cent · July 20, 2014, 04:19:22 PM

Well Don, its just you and me.

When do you use the OA? Just to clean up spots and smudges?

I am coming to the conclusion that I handle the product too much. I try really hard to keep it clean. I have two 4' X 8' tables in the shop and four distinct areas. And I use a roll of paper that is attached under a table. I roll a fresh piece on the table after I glue.

Just discovered I did not buy the correct Barkeepers Friend. The citrus juice did some good.

Not sure about the surgical gloves and a mask is totally out

.

Camano Ridge · July 20, 2014, 05:52:26 PM

Red, I wear nitrile gloves all the time when dying and if I intend to keep the leather natural un dyed I wear nitrile gloves. It is extremely easy to get marks or smudges on the leather that don't really show up until you start to put a finish on the leather. Oils from your fingers, salts from sweaty hands can all contribute. Secondary contamination such as touching something and transferring dirt or oils from that to the leather can happen easily. The gloves are cheap I buy them by the boxat harbor freight. I use Nitrile as they have more chemical resistance then latex gloves. It is not going to guarantee pristine leather but it will help eliminate one more source of possible contamination.

Red Cent · July 20, 2014, 10:21:26 PM

Really? I thought the other fellow was just being anal (retentive). Looks like a bunch more use them, I bet. I airbrush a lot, but when I hand dye, I wear the gloves.

Made a holster today. Right after I ran some water on it to form it, a bunch of little black marks appeared. Distilled water tomorrow.

Camano Ridge · July 21, 2014, 12:44:54 AM

Red, if you put water on it and imediately started getting little black spots you are getting metal from some place. One suggestion if you are using any machinery drill press, oscilating sander, sewing machine etc. turn the machine on and hold a clean white sheet of paper very near while the machine is running. This will help rule out any metal shavings coming from equipment. I found out the hardware. A while back I bought a used drill press I chucked a awl blade in for making stitch holes every time I went to wet mold the pocket holsters I was making at the time I got black spots. Even with distilled water. So one day I laid a piece of paper one the drill press when I turned the handle I could see tiny metal shaving landing on the paper. I got rid of that drill press and haev not had that problem since.

Red Cent · July 21, 2014, 10:02:59 AM

Welllllll, I am using an old and huge Craftsman drill press for the normal stuff. Guess I will go down to the reloading shop and get my other drill press.
I will report back.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · July 21, 2014, 10:37:36 AM

Red, I use pure 100% lemon juice, it has worked well for over the years, and I also use Lex-oil leather cleaner, if one doesn't get the job done the other usually does, Cowboy WC turned me on to these long ago, neither one will hurt the leather... for really tough stains I use Acetone, but I try to avoid using this, because it will dry your leather, a good leather conditioner is necessary after use, Lex-oil conditioner is what I use for that.

tEN wOLVES

Red Cent · July 21, 2014, 06:14:07 PM

Ten Wolves, I tried the Barkeepers Friend (the wrong kind) but it did contain citrus fruit. Alcohol won't touch them. The "marks" that I am incurring are very dark in color and varied shapes and sizes. From ten feet, they are difficult to detect but get up close and you can see them. Kind of a "speckling" effect without any pattern. And they show up when they hit water.

I have some oxalic acid coming to an Ace Hardware.

I am looking hard at my process and looking for the bad guys.

Don Nix · July 21, 2014, 06:39:41 PM

Red I have found over the years that body oils and water marks can be a pain. So I started using oxalic acid on each piece and I have found that it makes a way better end product. I mix it a little strong and use a clean sponge to apply it. Sometimes youll see marks and smudges that need to be resoaked in OA . A little trick I learned a long time ago is to always keep a big art eraser handy. You know the kind we had as kids in school. About two inches long and red. I use it to erase smudges and discolored spots prior to dyeing. Sometimes residual glue or oil from your hands will leave a place that you cant see on the leather but after you apply dye it will be a lighter area making the job uneven. You can use the OA and as it wets the leather look for any bad spots then after it dries take the eraser and give those spots a good erasing then re bleach it. Most times youll get a even clean project.

Red Cent · July 23, 2014, 08:45:55 PM

Well, the Oxalic acid didn't work. Made the rest of the holster looked lighter and brighter but the spots are still there. A piece of lemon rubbed on the spots had no effect.
Bought some nitrile gloves. PITA.
I might just put something together taking all the precautions I can think of and see what happens with natural (no dye) leather.

Something bothers me. The absence of comment from some of the most experienced leatherworkers is deafening. Makes me wonder what.........................................

Marshal Will Wingam · July 24, 2014, 10:29:40 AM

I've never tried cleaning leather. If I get something on it, I just dye it dark enough to cover the spots. There's always black at the end of that scale. If I had my heart set on a natural finish and end up with spots, I get two holsters. One dark and one natural.

Red Cent · July 24, 2014, 10:55:59 AM

Will, do you sell leather?

Marshal Will Wingam · July 25, 2014, 01:59:43 PM

Quote from: Red Cent on July 24, 2014, 10:55:59 AM
Will, do you sell leather?

No, I just pound the stuff. It has cost me a bit at times so I try to do things right the first time.

ChuckBurrows · July 25, 2014, 02:26:38 PM

Quote from: Red Cent on July 23, 2014, 08:45:55 PM
Something bothers me. The absence of comment from some of the most experienced leatherworkers is deafening. Makes me wonder what.........................................

There was no real need to offer more advice since those who answered pretty much said it all (plus most of us have a life outside the forums and when you're a full-time pro don't have a lot of free time. for myself I have just bee diagnosed with lymphoma so don't spend a lot of time doing much at all due to fatigue, etc.)- the only thing I would add is the leather may be getting stained at the tannery - when plating the leather excess oils and or waxes can get "stuck" to the plates or rollers and get embedded in the leather, handling in the warehouse can also get things dirty/stained.
I only make aged goods so such stains don't matter to me, but when needed I will use acetone, acetone mixed with lemon juices, or oxalic acid to clean with - if that doesn't "work" completely than I dye it and move on...

You also noted a problem with "soft leather" in another post and this can be a problem when buying leather from sources such as Tandy who have no control over what they are sent - one palette may be stiffer while the next is softer. To get around that problem I use Herman Oak, RJF Leather, or Wickett and Craig. Herman Oak only sells direct with a ten hide minimum, but there are several retailers. Wickett and Craig is direct from the tannery in any amount and you can get it double or triple plated which increases the stiffness by compressing the fibers. RJF, my main supplier these days, sells sides, backs, and shoulders that are tanned the old fashioned pit way in Portugal and they have been very clean hides with a firm hand. The chemicals that are sold for hardening leather just remove a bunch of oils and waxes (which IMO makes the leather brittle), they technically do not harden it the same way as the hot water and heat method, which changes it at the molecular level.

For both cleanliness, lack of range marks, etc I would recommend backs in #1 or A grade - they are the premium cut and you will pay a bit more, but it can be money well spent.
and as for selling - I've been doing since 1971, full time since 1999....

Red Cent · July 26, 2014, 04:54:07 PM

First time I have seem the black specs. I started buying leather from Zack White until recently. He was out of what I needed so I ordered from RJF. BTW, ZW has a bunch of leather in stock now. A new computer person just started so I would suppose inventory will be updated shortly.
The other day I was in Raleigh with my wife and decided to stop by Tandy Leather. I bought two pieces of leather and after a few days I have decided that pure desperation will drive me back. Bad experience.
Having said all of that, I don't know whose leather had the problem. I kinda threw this holster together from remnants. I have made a number of natural leather products in the last couple years and this is my first experience with the black specks.
Chuck, I am very sorry to hear about your illness. If it is OK, prayers will be said for you tonight.
I started wanting to do some leather and remembered reading stuff on Cas City. And I have picked up some great information from a number of the experienced leatherworkers on this site. For that I am grateful. I suppose the new people that ask questions or even old people that ask questions rely on someone poking their head in on a post and throwing ideas in the middle of the floor so we can kick them around.
My "style" of leather is different than most of you. I stepped into SASS territory around 2000 and got bit. As an old shooter, I was trapped. Like some other disciplines in which I have competed in the past, SASS is a go fast game and calls for special leather and sometimes innovative leather. So please give me and any other drifter hungering for knowledge some of your time when you can manage it. I don't expect anything more than that.
Thanks.