1860 problem

[sail32]

1860 Problem

I am using 0.454 Hornady balls in my revolver.

I load 25 grains of FFFg, a felt lube wad and then the ball.

I have found that the ball backs partly out of the chamber and prevents the cylinder rotating.

Comments or suggestions.

Thanks.

[FlyingZebra]

It's possible that your chamber mouths need to be deburred or chamfered.

[Trailrider]

You might be better off using .457" balls, which will shave off a ring of lead when seated in the chamber.

[Lefty Dude]

You might be better off using .457" balls, which will shave off a ring of lead when seated in the chamber.

Agree with TR, +++++++++++++++++

[sail32]

The current 0.454 balls do shave off a ring of lead.

[FlyingZebra]

Sail try my suggestion.
I've seen numerous cylinders with burred chamber mouths - which do shave lead, and pass an undersized ball into the chamber.
It's worth a look.

[sail32]

Hi FlyingZebra,
I'll check before I go to the range tomorrow.

[FlyingZebra]

It can be tricky to detect without a telescoping gage.

[Lefty Dude]

When shooting & collecting Italian Clones,  a proper size Pin gauge & Micrometer is your best Friends.

[FlyingZebra]

Lefty-

Pin gages and a micrometer are good - but won't necessarily detect this issue.
The Telescoping Gage is the tool for the job (like pin gages, also used in conjunction with a micrometer), as it can reach into the chamber past the mouth to take an actual chamber diameter measurement.

This image poached off the autozone site, showing the use of a telescoping gage to measure cylinder runout in an engine - for those not familiar with this tool.



They come in a range of sizes.
This image poached off Grainger, to show a typical set.

[Montana Slim]

Try skipping the lubed wad and seat directly on the powder. Ram tight. If you need lube, put a small dab on top of the ball (don't fill to the top).

Simply put, excess lube on the wad might be pressed into the chamber walls and reducing the friction (grip) of the ball into the chamber allowing it to work forward under recoil.

Slim

[Mike]

I now use .457 ball in 1860 and 1858, also getting set up to uniform the chamber on all my cylinders to uniform .451.
One of my cylinders has very uneven chamber.
I also lub over the ball.

[Lefty Dude]

I now use .457 ball in 1860 and 1858, also getting set up to uniform the chamber on all my cylinders to uniform .451.
One of my cylinders has very uneven chamber.
I also lub over the ball.

Who will you use to do the chamber reaming ?

[Mike]

I will do it my self, have had instruction on how to do it.
Just waiting on the hand reamer from the uk as I can not get one from the US surplies.

[sail32]

Update on the bullet moving problem in my 1974 Colt 1860 replica. The bullets are Hornady round ball and are 0.454 inch diameter and a ring of lead is cut at each loading.

The problem of the bullets and wads moving foreward while loading is I suspect caused by compressed air. I have a similar problem in loading cartridges with pan lubed .44-40 bullets.

Loading bullets with out the lube wad did not change the problem and the bullets still moved foreward.

I thought that chain fires were most likely to be caused by loose caps so I had tried a number of cap makes and sizes.

CCI # 11 = Caps fell off but no chain fire.
Remington # 11 = Caps fell off but no chain fire.
RWS # 55 = Stayed on so well that some of the caps had to be removed with difficulty and needle nose pliers.
CCI # 10 = Worked like they should.

At the start of the trial walk I loaded the 1860 with 25 grains of FFg per chamber, using a volumetric measure and Hornady 0.454 balls.
On firing the pistol I noticed that the top 3 cylinders were missing caps.
Firing the top chamber, in line with the barrel, also fired the chambers on either side.
This was checked by centering the middle loaded chamber of the last 3 loaded chambers, in line with the barrel and firing again with no damage to the pistol or me.

Later firing with the lube wads under the ball eliminated the multiple fire problem.

[pony express]

I doubt you are compressing air under the ball, because there's the hole in the nipple that would let air out when you seat the ball.

For my Pietta 1860's, the caps that work best are Rem #10, followed by CCI#11. From my experience, Rem#11s will just fall off, and CCI#10s are so small, they won't seat all the way down on the nipple, requiring multiple hammer strikes to fully seat them and set it off. Tried some RWS once, with same results you had. On the bright side, you shouldn't ever have to worry about a cap jam from them!

[rifle]

Slippery chambers walls can let balls move forward when the gun recoils. Non slippery chamber walls can do the same thing.

The balls need to be tighter than a few .001's over sized. Try .457's balls. I learned from experience that the balls should be a min. of .006 over size fer the chambers. I go .008 and even .010 over size in some Walkers and Dragoons.

If yer stickin with factory made balls then the .457's should work.

Chambers can have a burr like has been mentioned. A simple finger nail test with yer lil finger can feel fer them. Hang stone them off with a round stone or a double cut cherry burr.

Some chambers for some reason,and plenty of them, have a tapered size to them. The further you seat the ball the smaller it makes them. Maybe seatin further can solve the problem.

If you can center up then a simple chucking reamer works real well to uniforn yer chambers and get rid of burrs. A goood vise on a mill or drill press can be used. Making a "pointer" out of a rod that you make the exact size of the chamber mouth can help center up well enough.
Put the pointer in the chuck and line it up and when it goes in enough it's lined up enough. Then use the chucking reamer.

Don't like that way? Use an expandable hand reamer from the machine shop supply or the hardware store or the Northern Tool catalog. I've talked to people that have done it successfully. You only have to ream down as far as the ball will ever be seated and stay in the reamed with yer right powder charge.

I use the chucking reamer way of reaming chambers but....I had Starett make me a tool fer centering up. I used the "pointer" method before that but got tired of making pointers the exact right size. I have a milling machine though so I don't have to use a drill press.

Chucking reamers come in sizes or .001 and even .0005 sizes so one can always be found to work. They do a professional job if centered up well.

If you ream and get a lil off then....since cap&ball revolvers use balls and not conicals you can widden the forcing cone to gets things a-right.

[sail32]

Thanks rifle, I'll have another look at the chamber mouths.
At the moment a second effort with the loading leaver seems to solve the problem most of the time..
The ball movement may be the powder uncompressing, but I sometime have the same problem loading .44-40 and that is caused by compressed air. Holding the bullet down or resteating solves the problem.

[rifle]

Come to thunk of it I've had that compressed air problem with some guns. Luckily I could go a size bigger with the balls to solve it.
If you push the ball down and see it come up opn it's own it's either demons from hellor air. If it happens later like it may be recoil it may be air and recoil.

I bet the next size balls will work. I ain't puttin up any money though since you might be some kinda ringer settin me up fer the big loose.

[Flint]

Perhaps a burr or diameter problem at the mouth of the chambers.  I have a ROA that had that problem, after seating a ball, it was loose.  I sent it to Ruger and they (not very neatly) reamed the mouths of the chambers with a scraper, which I could have done myself, more cleanly, I might add.  I expected a new cylinder....  As someone above suggested, measure the chambers for taper.

Also, I have found that Hornady balls are not as round as Speer.  I use 454 and 457 Speer balls in my Uberti revolvers, and some are loose with 454's.    Thinking of reaming to 29/64 (.453) which is a close match to the bore grooves.  That would demand a 457 ball, I would think.

Seating a 454 or 457 ball in the existing chamber cuts a ring, but the resulting ball is the diameter of the chamber, still quite smaller than the bore.  Those who have reamed state an improvement in accuracy.