Loading Data for the 50/95WCF

[DTS]

TKS for the note, ndnchf. I figured they'd probably shoot with BP, but the noses of them are SO short, they won't feed unless I point the muzzle down with the bolt back all the way, to allow the case to fall out from under the extractor, and drop into the chamber - then I can close the bolt. Pain in the posterior I might add.  I am going to cast up some bullets in my shortened Lyman #515141 mould that run 420gr. and might just go ahead and order a 350gr. mould form Buffalo arms, a .515<> I think.  If I make a bump die, smaller commercial bullet diameters might be reclaimable.

[ndnchf]

Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html

[DTS]

That does look like a great bullet and one that will hold enough lube as well.  Thanks for the link to the thread.  Now, to find moose Bullets

[DTS]

Got my Bro to snap a picture and mail it to me. Was over there showing him my new .50/95.
That is his M1876 in .45/60- also a Uberti, which he restocked in some nice walnut.  He also has some sights from Montana Vintage Arms, I think it's called.  That is a LOT of money, just in sights.
The bullet loaded in my case, is a 415gr., shortened #515141 form a Lyman mould.

[King Medallion]

Beautiful!

[ndnchf]

A nice pair! Your friend does nice stock work

[DTS]

Tks guys - Yes- my brother is recognized by the best of them, as being in the top 8 to 10 of muzzleloading gun makers in the States.

[wymanwinn]

Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html

chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

[ndnchf]

chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

Please post some pics and details!

[wymanwinn]

Please post some pics and details!

will do....gonna turn on the pot as soon as i get home and cast some up....!!!!

[wymanwinn]

Well, the Moose Mould 516-375 arrived as scheduled.....have to say, these are REALLY, really great folks and they produce a VERY nice mould



i ordered a double cavity, right handed aluminum mould/precision steel sprue cutter...it comes with handles and is a work of art...







AND it produces a very fine bullet from ~20:1 alloy (725f) at about .5165" dia, ~.773"long, ~285"meplat and ~.370 from the face of the meplat to the top edge of the crimp groove...which added to the JBA .50-95 case length makes the COL of the round about 2.292" wihich is about .033" shorter than the 2.325" mortise on my rifle....this just may work without needing to trim the cases...will load some dummies for test cycling over the weekend....








now i need to acquire a .516" sizing die for my Star....

wyman

edit...well, i could not wait...i loaded 5 dummie rounds (even without sizing the bullet) and the COL ended up being about 2.280" with the roll crimp firmly in place....pushed them into the mag tube and cycled them all out without a hitch.....!!!!

this mould is a winner in my book....

[ndnchf]

Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.

[wymanwinn]

Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.

just ordered a 515" sizer with 6 lube holes for my star....need lots of holes to pump all the lube in...

i will weigh the bullets before and after and post here

i will also, when i get some free time, create a detailed drawing for the bullet....

thanks for all the help ndnchp....very much appreciated...

[ndnchf]

Glad to be able to help. 

I measured my Rapine bullet in 30-1 alloy.  It measures .745" long, .350" from meplat to crimp groove, .516" diameter and weighs around 353gr.  So its a little shorter and lighter, but not much.  I've loaded this over 76gr of Goex 3F with .150" compression.



I look forward to your range report.

[wymanwinn]

ok, could not let this rest...LOL

the above is a JBA .50-95 case sized with a CH4D Uberti full length die, primed with a Win LR primer, neck sized to .514, 75gr of Goex FFFg compressed .150" with a .509" compression die, seated w/ roll crimp a .515" sized Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullet (see abpove) that weighed 373.4gr w/o lube/375.6gr with SPG filling the huge lube groove and the COL is 2.280".....

this is a VERY fine looking cartridge....looking forward to putting it on paper

ndnchf....went with 75gr of FFFg cuz of the extra length from the crimp groove to the base.....!

oh yeah....it cycles and chambers beautifully in my Cimarron (Uberti) 1876 Centennial, 28"bbl....

[ndnchf]

Looks like a winner. Looking forward to your range report!

[DTS]

That is indeed a great looking mould.  I have a Lyman #515139 in 350gr. coming from Buffalo Arms. In the mean time, I trimmed some .515141's from .970" to .740" at roughly 415gr.  These I loaded up with H4895 using Fed 210 primers.  I should have used my 215's due to some propensity towards hangfires unless I pointed the muzzle up before touching them off.

I set up a "25 yard Timed and Rapid Fire Handgun Target at 100 meters (109yards) and proceeded to test my new Uberti M76 rifle & the ammo ammo with it's factory sights. The black bull (9 and 10 rings only) on this target is 5 1/2" wide and made a decent aiming point for the open sights, shot off the bench.

The 300gr. .512" RFN's did not shoot very well at all, scattering around - perhaps 3foot group - all round the target and none of the first 10 rounds on it - both high and low, side to side - LOL, however they did not lead the bore, which surprised me.  I merely blasted the rest of them off- 30 - to fireform the shortened .50/90 brass, of which I had 40.  the other 60 brass I have, is Jamison, .50/95 WCF. Nice brass. The .50/90's also fireformed nicely, by the way.

When I first received the rifle, I ran a square of red Scotch Brite through the bore - perhaps 30 strokes, lubed only with WD40 then I cleaned it well with Patch-out and oiled with Kroil. The bore feels very smooth and even.  It lacks the loose spot my brother's model 76 had, which we fire-lapped out, BTW.

The shortened #515141's, weighing from a low of 410gr. to a maximum of 420gr. I lubed them by hand, with a mix. of 60% (good) beeswax, 40" Vaseline which had worked for me, for 20years or more, smokeless or black powder.  I made 2 deliberate, 5 shot groups, off the bags (resting the back of my left hand on the bench-rest's bag) ran a horizontal group 3 1/2" wide C to C and only 1 5/8" high, then the nasty, gusting cross wind shifted, to directly behind us & gusting making a group 2.9" C to C and only 2.3" wide.

For the first day at the range with a new rifle and new loads, I was quite pleased. Nice trigger and minor boot in recoil. After arriving home, a very tight dry patch removed one small sliver of lead - that was it, for 60 shots total. There was no other lead in the barrel and not much carbon fouling either. An easy cleanup.

It will be fun to test with the new mould when it arrives.

My brothers rifle, with the mid range aperture sights and Hadley eye piece put 10 shots (both he and I shooting) into 2.465" X 1.337", again, a horizontal group in the cross wind. The load in that .45/60 was a 300gr. FN with 14.0gr. of Trail Boss.

[DTS]

Just checked the mould again at Buffalo's site, seems to have a .400 from meplat to crimp groove. That might be too long, unless I trim the cases - might try crimping over the first band before shortening my brass.(after it arrives, that is. Was mailed yesterday - could take about 3 weeks - damn. I am not good at waiting.

[ndnchf]

That is mighty fine shooting, especially for the first time out. How are you shortening those 515141 bullets?

[DTS]

I have my Dad's little lathe - Standard Optical Company is the name of it. It's babbit bearings need replacing and due to that, it has too much slop for precise work. I use it for brass work on some of my wildcats and for shortening cases and such - worked well on the bullets.
There is no carriage feed, all by crank.  Dad did a lot of good work on it - he was much more skillful than I, that's for sure.