Loading Data for the 50/95WCF

[DTS]

I did some chrono testing with my .50/95 last time Taylor and I were out.  Didn't get to shoot for groups, but ran some over the 'clock' with both GOEX 3F and Swiss 1 1/2F and the 300gr. .512" Buffalo bullet, using the 34" droi tuvbe
85.0gr. 1 1/2Swiss: Fed210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,580fps
78.0gr. 3F  GOEX::: Fed 210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,650fps

edited - 3F not 2F GOEX

[buckheart]

Some I did a while back. I haven't shot much for groups yet either.

350 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1162.5  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 26.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1185  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27 gr. AA5744 avg. 1237  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1261  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1055  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 32.1 gr IMR4227 avg. 1394  fps.

all averages from 5 shot strings
federal LRP

[DTS]

So far, my handloads using the 368gr. Lyman mould, #515139AQ are:

56.0gr. H4895 Fed 210 ---- 1,626fps.
52.0gr. IMR3031 Fed 210 - 1,700fps.
52.0gr. AmmoMart 44N Fed 210 - 1,650fps.  Note this powder is marked - use IMR3031 data. In appearance, it looks like H4895, but with blacker, slightly smaller granuals. It burns much more cleanly than either IMR3031 or H4895. It seems quite accurate and since I have a few pounds of it, I am going after that 1,000 meter buffalo with it, this summer.

Further to that old post, here is some data I found and had written down - I do not remember where I got this from, so here it is, anyway.
This data is for the Uberti model 1876 .50/95.  No make or brass nor primers used, is mentioned.

This is the data I was sort-of following/extrapolating my data from.
I also don't remember where I got this list from.
I also recall Uberti saying these actions are MUCH stronger than people give them credit for.

Note, this data is mostly jacketed bullets, which are undersized to our rifles - as far as I know.

339gr. Cast Ten-X Factory??? - 1,477fps.

300gr. Barnes FN - 53.3gr. 5744 - 1,657fps
------------------ 60.7gr. H4895 - 1,744fps
------------------ 47.2gr. IMR4198 - 1,815fps
------------------ 60.3gr. VN133 - 1,819fps- MAX
------------------ 52.7gr. IMR4198 - 2,057fps
------------------ 62.8gr. 2015 - 2,126fps

450gr. Barnes FN - 46.4gr. H4895 - 1,336fps
------------------ 32.1gr. IMR4227 - 1,363fps
------------------ 35.8gr. IMR4198 - 1,370fps
------------------ 45.3gr. IMR3031 - 1,456fps
------------------ 46.7gr. VN133 - 1,402fps
------------------ 50.5gr. H4895 - 1,473fps
------------------ 48.8gr. IMR3031 1,582fps

[frimath]

Has anyone shot the Jamieson 50-95 win out of any of their Ubertis???

While in the process of working up a load for my hotly anticipated Presidio model's arrival, I had been researching etc loads for this caliber. While searching out powders and bullet weights I decided to take one of the Jamieson cartridges and pull the head in order to get some info on what their loading might be. Although I thought it would be a long shot to identify the powder I actually caught a very unexpected break in that regard!

There is very little doubt in my mind that the powder they are using is in fact HODGENS "Trail Boss" !  I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that powder was very conducive to such a large case much less in such an old timey caliber.  I looked into its use in rifle cartridges and in fact they have a loading for the 45-70 "Trapdoor". As many of us know the Trapdoor is considered the weakest action in that caliber and hence is loaded significantly less than more robust firearms.

So........ the loading they are using is a 350 grain lead bullet in front of 18-18.2 grains of the Trail Boss. I say 18-18.2 because the scale actually showed .2 and I figure it was meant to use an even 18 grains.   This 18 grains , however, seems to be at the HIGH end of the loading spectrum and I am wondering what anyone on this board may think about this information. Right now I have a bunch of 365 grain lead bullets but I don't think I want to load them up with 18 grains. I'm thinking firstly lets see how the Jamieson rounds work in the soon to be had new rifle and then maybe look at loading 14-16 grains behind the 365 grain (.515 dia. I believe) lead that I have recently received.

I'd love to get some feedback on all of this and would appreciate any worthwhile "musings" regarding same........ thanks!

[kwilliams1876]

the Jamieson brass is what i use, with 1f black powder, compressed, fiber wad, std. primer, ideal 512138 430 gr. cast bullet. the combo prints nice 100yd groups and with the original style repro tang sight, able to consistently hit a 14" gong at 200 yards. never tried for a group at 50 yds.
best
kw

[frimath]

You're using a 430 grain bullet?!?!?!?

[kwilliams1876]

yes sir 430gr.....works fine with the 1-48" twist. plus this ideal mold has the large black powder grease grooves. no leading, lube star on muzzle.
it is not the the express load of the original, but Uberti chose the rifling twist, and the little 300/350 grain pellets never seemed to work for me at 100 yds. a little less powder in case but, really makes no difference in performance.......sounds good going off too!

[frimath]

Quickie update:

So I took the Presidio Carbine out to the range for fun this weekend. Shot about 10 rounds of the Jamieson 50-95 win commercial loading and it was surprisingly mild. I was hitting the paper a little high, around 6 inches ( maybe even a bit higher) or so at 50 yards. I may have posted previously, that it seems the load they are using is 18-18.2 grains of "Trail Boss" behind a 350 grain lead bullet. I have very limited experience with this powder and was wondering what others here on the board think about the load they used. It seems that the recommended loading for a 45-70 Gov't is about max of 16-16.5 grains. That is recommended for the weak action "Trapdoor" models.

Also, I loaded a few of my own with a 365 grain lead bullet propelled by 41 grain of IMR 4198 . I found this loading has been used to great effect here on the "presidio" thread and decided to reduce the loading used by another cowpoke here just to be a bit conservative. The results were certainly a more "stout" load and recoil. But it shot a little bit lower at 50 yards and certainly closer to the point of aim. What was also interesting is that when I aimed at a piece of a clay "bird" at 100 yards I hit it dead on! Perfect!!! so this load is certainly worth giving some further investigation on. I may even try a heavier bullet.

I am going to pour through these boards in this regard to loading this caliber and then return to Mike Venturino's book on loading for Lever Action Rifles. If I understood how to post photos I'd post my targets for show and tell. But so far I haven't figured out how to post photos just yet. Thanks to all for the postings and help in this forum!

[greyhawk]

Quickie update:

So I took the Presidio Carbine out to the range for fun this weekend. Shot about 10 rounds of the Jamieson 50-95 win commercial loading and it was surprisingly mild. I was hitting the paper a little high, around 6 inches ( maybe even a bit higher) or so at 50 yards. I may have posted previously, that it seems the load they are using is 18-18.2 grains of "Trail Boss" behind a 350 grain lead bullet. I have very limited experience with this powder and was wondering what others here on the board think about the load they used. It seems that the recommended loading for a 45-70 Gov't is about max of 16-16.5 grains. That is recommended for the weak action "Trapdoor" models.

Also, I loaded a few of my own with a 365 grain lead bullet propelled by 41 grain of IMR 4198 . I found this loading has been used to great effect here on the "presidio" thread and decided to reduce the loading used by another cowpoke here just to be a bit conservative. The results were certainly a more "stout" load and recoil. But it shot a little bit lower at 50 yards and certainly closer to the point of aim. What was also interesting is that when I aimed at a piece of a clay "bird" at 100 yards I hit it dead on! Perfect!!! so this load is certainly worth giving some further investigation on. I may even try a heavier bullet.

I am going to pour through these boards in this regard to loading this caliber and then return to Mike Venturino's book on loading for Lever Action Rifles. If I understood how to post photos I'd post my targets for show and tell. But so far I haven't figured out how to post photos just yet. Thanks to all for the postings and help in this forum!

posting pics is easy - when you are here writing - just go out the left lower corner of the text box and theres a button sez Additional options - hit that - up comes a little bitty menu with Attach : Browse - hit the browse box takes you into your computer to find whatever pic you wanna post - just click it an its done - itll show down below when its right - - at the other end take pic with phone and email to yrself from the phone - that puts it on the puter ........ the kids or grankids would have a way smarter way that tha to do it all but it works

[dusty texian]

Have just completed loading 50/95 cal. Jamison brass for the 9th. time , without any brass failure . Bp. was used in all loadings . How many times are you 50/95 shooters getting out of your brass ?,,,,,DT

[kwilliams1876]

yes, i am at 9-10-11 reloads myself with the jamison brass. have not had a split yet. i basically just neck size mine by leaving the die 1 turn short of touching the shell holder. the uberti chamber neck is in a different place than the rcbs die. my loads now are doing real well at 200yds, so am very pleased. 1f powder and .060 fiber wad, std. primer. will eventually try the 1 1/2f next.
kw
montana territory

[dusty texian]

Same here KW1876 , all I do is neck size enough to get a good bullet grip leaving the shoulder out of the sizing , then crimp after bullet seating . Works for me and does not overwork the brass . ,,,DT 

[DTS]

Hodgdon's Trail Boss works reasonably well in all normal rifle ctgs. and will not produce pressures, it seems, over about 28,000psi - and pressures that high seems only in the large case, small bore rounds like the .300 magnums shooting 180gr. jacketed bullets.

A full case of it (6" drop tube) in my wildcat .375 - 80gr. capacity case, with a 310gr. cast bullet, produced only 1,380fps and no pressure to speak of - go-pow - load, like a very soft cast bullet load.

I've used 15gr. TB in a .45/60 (.45 1.9") chambered Sharps with 385gr. cast with no problems and 1 1/2" to 2" accuracy at 100 meters off the bags. It was a 100% loading to the bottom of the bullet. I was able to seat the bullet out to about the same
OAL as a normal. .45/70 due to the 3/8" leade (throat) I put in my chamber.

In the .50/95 Uberti for a top load, quite safe in the 76's - likely new or old, 100% to the base of a seated bullet is the max. load. It will be a go-pow load, with very low pressure, likely under or at 20,000psi and might produce about 1,150fps - with about any bullet weight.

I just uploaded and printed off a chart of "Modern Uberti 1876 ONLY, 28" barrel" data:

Pressures calculated using Quick-Load, running from 20,000psi starting loads to 26,000psi for the maximum loads.

http://1587510142.rsc.cdn77.org/RRoom/researchsheets/50-95,%20Uberti%201876.pdf

This data is for cast 339gr. as well as 300gr. and 450gr. jacketed ammo, using Bertram brass and Federal 215 magnum primers.

I am going to start using 5744 as I was able to find 3 pounds of it and will start at 38.0gr. and work from there, with my 368gr. Lyman mound.
I expect 1,600fps for the starting load and perhaps 1,700fps for a working max.
Last summer, I was able to get into the dirt underneath our 1,000meter buffalo target with my last 3 rounds. I use a Smith sight.
This is the sight, available from Smith in Oregon or from Brownells - same price, $169.00.  The detents between the 100yard marks make for repeatable sight settings for long range shooting. I was using 52.0gr. N44 AmmoMart powder, with the 368gr. Lyman bullet, for 1,650fps with a thin beer-box card wad between powder and bullet, Fed 210 primers. My rifle likes this load and those last 3 rounds at the 1000metre buffalo appeared to drop into about a 3 to 4 foot group. Next summer, I'll ring that fellow. 4' x 8' buffalo He has no legs below the knees and is mounted, hanging on chains, so he rings with a bullet hit.  Brother Taylor got on him with his .50/90 Sharps, 600gr. Buffalo Arms bullet and 91gr. Swiss 1 1/2.

[dusty texian]

Loading for the 24" 1876 Winchester with original tools . The loads feed and shoot very well  in the little short rifle . Bullet cast with WW dropped @ .513  @ 331 gr. SPG lube  , 86 gr. Swiss FFg  , Winchester LR primer , Jamison case .  That oughta kill a boar !,,,DT

[King Medallion]

That oughta kill a boar !,,,DT

Only one way to find out! Post pic's of boar and rifle together!

[dusty texian]

King do you really want me to put my 76 on one of them stinky old boars ? ,,,,DT

[King Medallion]

Yes! Yes I do! 

[dusty texian]

Well if you put it that way , Ok then ,,,,,DT

[ndnchf]

I don't think we'll have to wait long for a photo

[King Medallion]

Well? We're waiting!!!