.45 Colt blowback

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I finished shooting my 4th SASS match of this year in Frontier Cartridge category using my 1866 Yellow Boy carbine for the rifle targets. It was beginning to feel a little sluggish after about 300 rounds including practice, so I opened the action and found a mess. It was completely packed with a mixture of Carbonized Randomly Accelerated Particles (CRAP)   and Ballistol, There was no rust but it was a nasty mess. To keep things running during a match I would spritz the bolt and lifter with 1:7 moose milk at and every other stage drag a bore snake through the barrel.
The load used is Winchester cases fire formed and not resized, a Wolf primer, and 2.2 c/c of FFFg powder GOEX, KIK, or Du Pont depending on which one I grabbed out of the powder locker. A wad cut from an orange juice container and a 210grain J/P BIG LUBE® boolet cast 1:30 using SPG, Lyman Black Magic, or my beef tallow, bees wax, and Crisco homemade mix for lube depending on when and with what the boolets were lubed.
I realize that blow back is inevitable with the straight .45 Colt case, and I also realize it cannot be stopped, but is there any suggestions of a technique to reduce it.
My only other option is to remove the side plates every so often and hose out the mess with either WD-40 or a degreaser which I don't want to do because of the possibility of damaging a thread in the soft brass frame.
I have not tried to anneal the case mouth but the next time I have the lead pot hot that will be the next experiment., along with a heavier boolet.
Any thoughts from more experienced shooters would be appreciated.
Bunk
]

[Lefty Dude]

Next time buy a 44WCF.

[Coffinmaker]

Your going to get a whole bunch of sure-fire solutions to your blow-by problem.  Some will actually reduce it somewhat.  Maybe.  More than likely ........ Not.  No two rifles from Uberti are alike.  What works in one will not necessarily work in another.  You mentioned annealing the case mouth.  Partial answer .... Maybe.  Tremendous bother for not necessarily a great return.  Heavy bullets ...... Maybe.  Really hard crimp with a factory crimp die ....... Maybe.  More powder ...... Your probably already filling the case.  Doing all of the above together ...... Maybe.  SAMMI set specs. For chamber size.  Not smaller than ...... Not larger than and Uberti at best cuts chambers to the large end and above.  The chamber is usually very generous indeed.  Very good chance you will not really fix the problem.  A couple of further suggestions.  Switch to 44-40 cases.  Run a 45 expander into em, seat .45 bullets and fire form.  Better than annealing.  Switch to Cowboy .45 Special cases which also have a fairly soft case mouth.
The original .45 Colt was a copper balloon head case with very little rim.  No rifles were chambered for the round because of blow-by, even with copper cases and because there was insufficient rim for extraction.  Because of very generous chamber sizes, your fighting an up-hill battle.
My final recommendation is to swap the rifle off for a 44-40.  That is the only positive fix.


Coffinmaker

Ps: almost forgot, to shoot C45S cases, you will have to get a modified carrier block

[Cuts Crooked]

Ok, here's an old article reprinted from the Cowboy Chronicle years back that should help you.  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,6290.0.html This is a thread in the child forum here called the Dark Arts.......lotsa good info in there, look around while in there.

[Jefro]

My final recommendation is to swap the rifle off for a 44-40.  That is the only positive fix.


Coffinmaker

Ta Daaaa!! Switch to 44/40 and be done with it, open the action.....CLEAN Good Luck

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Bunk Stagnerg]

On careful consideration it appears that the aggravation of blow back in the .45 Colt is something to be tolerated, controlled, but not eliminated like feral hogs and fire ants, and gun grabbing politicians

Rather obviously the expense of re-barreling, bolt face modification, and retooling to load .44-40   of my rack of .45 Colt rifles cannot be justified for such a trivial inconvenience.

It is my intention to convert one of the Yellow Boys to .45 Cowboy Special as soon as funds build up. There seems to be very little blow back in that short cartridge using 1.3 c/c FFFg powder and a DD 210 boolet in my open top revolvers, so perhaps they will work better in the rifle. Also it would seem to be closer to the period correct .44 Henry rim fire the original cartridge of the 1866 rifle if my information is correct. Any experiences with that combination would be appreciated.
Bunk

[Major 2]

My solution can be somewhat costly, but the out come is to my liking 
I realize that is not perhaps the solution for everyone, but with some well executed trading it became mine.
I have 4 Henry's two in 45 Colt for Smokeless and 2 in 44/40 for either/or , seemed to me a grand idea 

[w44wcf]

The post that Cuts referenced above will make the .45 Colt seal up the chamber just like a .44-40.  w44wcf

[Lucky R. K.]

Hey Bunk,

I used to have the same problems you are describing until I got some advice from a long time BP shooter.  His advice was,

1. shoot a full case of powder with a little compression.  For me it is about 31 grains of 2F Goex and about 1/8" compression.

2. Shoot a heavy bullet. I shoot a 230 grain Big-Lube bullet.

3. Use plenty of a good BP lube.

Squib loads with light bullets will just deposit all the fouling in the breach area of the rifle.  Heavy loads will work much better to seal the .45 Colt case.  If you are shooting plenty of a good BP lube some of it will blow into the breech area and help keep the fouling soft.

I know there are a lot of different ways to help make the rifle run smoothly.  Using this method I can usually shoot six stages or more without touching the gun.

Lucky 

[Paladin UK]

FWIW...

I have NO blowback in my 92!!

Puks recipe ...

CBC case annealed neck, 27grns ffg  3cc grits, PUK DD Flat boolit

Here some piccies after 64 rds... just placed the rifle in the rest and took the picces!! NO Cleaning At All!!  had yet taken place!!

Paladin (What lurvs his #92   ) UK

[Coffinmaker]

Hey PUK!!

Happy new year.  .  Some obvious, who ever cut the chamber for your rifle did a much better job of chambering than Uberti does 

Coffinmaker

[paledun]

My fired brass looks as clean as those posted by Cuts Crooked.  My Uberti 73 looks as clean, following a summer of use, as those posted by Paladin UK.  I anneal my brass and recommend annealing as a first step for any 45 shooter who is concerned about blowback.  One hour produces 200 annealed cases.  Each case shot twice before re-annealling.  No real effort for the results produced.  Sagerider

[Trailrider]

I hate to say the "s" word...but smokeless powder might help dramatically reduce your problem. Cheaper than rebarrelling, etc. I would also definitely recommend as firm a crimp as you can put on the case mouth without collapsing the case. Don't overexpand the case mouth prior to seating the bullet. You should have at least .002-.003" interferrence between the bullet and the inside of the case before seating. Use no bullet lighter than 230 gr. and 250 would be better. Annealing the case to the depth of the bullet might help. And, yeah, .44-40 would solve your problem regardless of the type of powder used.

[Angel_Eyes]

Heavy crimp, making the powder work should seal the chamber and reduce the blowback.

Very basic stuff from years back as I was taught by my mentor.

[Paladin UK]

Fer Trailrider ...

I hate to say the "s" word...but smokeless powder might help dramatically reduce your problem

How could you use ...THAT word  In the Darksiders Den!!!


Paladin (Whats totally  ) UK

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I want to thank everyone for the ideas on .45 Colt blow back. Right now we are in the middle of calving season.  It is (9:30 PM CDT) as I write this and I just got in from checking a new calf that dropped this evening so time is limited. A 30 hour 9 day week would possible give me time to do the fun things.

The ammo bench is pretty full getting ready for a 2 day 10 stage match at the end of the month so experiments with the ideas will have to wait.

Lefty Dude, that is a good idea and  if it was not for the fact I started SASS shooting with 3 Gen1 Colts in .45 Colt and a Winchester marked '92 in .45 Colt it is possible I would have started with .44-40 chambered guns, but it is too late I am firmly in the .45 Colt  business.

My idea is to get an inexpensive Lee "tumble lube" mold 230 grain and fill all those grooves with BP lube and put a lube cookie underneath it. If that weight slows down the blowback will be in touch with DD for one of his 230 grain big lube boolets.
I have been using Graf  FFg in the .45 Colt cases, but would GOEX FFFg give a little more pressure to seal the chamber better?

Right now I am using 2.3c/c slightly compressed with the 210 grain Big Lube boolet, but I am wondering if there will be room for that charge with the longer boolet. Any cogent remarks would be appreciated.

Load 'em heavy boys, they air a'comin'
BUNK

[Trailrider]

Fer Trailrider ...

How could you use ...THAT word  In the Darksiders Den!!!


Paladin (Whats totally  ) UK

Aw, just figured things were too quiet! 

[Paladin UK]

Fer  Trailrider...

Nice one pard!!

Paladin (  ) UK

[Four Eyes Henry]

I, like Paladin UK, also use CBC brass in my '92 but not annealed.
Chamber is on the top end of the specs and I had my sizer die reamed out a little.
I can thumb seat a bullet after sizing, 18 grains of blackpowder, cous cous, 1,5 mm compression and a roll crimp does the trick for me.
The cartridges still fit my rugers BTW

[Earl Brasse]

Possible things to look at:


I didn't see a mention of the dia. bullet you're using.

Slug bore to check dia. (even though 1/30 should be soft enough to slug up/down, it's good to know)

If using .452 bullet, pull one & check dia.

Try loading  .454 bullets. After loading a couple, pull them & check dia.,

The bullet dia. may not be surviving the loading process.

You might need a larger expanding ball for the larger bullet to end up larger than the smaller one after loading.

Need to make sure it still chambers etc. of course.