A Stevens '44' project in the works.

[Chev. William]

Summary of results of Forming .25 Stevens size cases with the "RC" press:
1.  The .25ACP Lee Carbide Sizing Die I have been using with no detectable changes in my old "JR-3" press for over 200 reformed cases showed about .025 of Carbide ring retraction into the die body after 70 cases were done on the "RC" press.
2.  I contacted Lee and they asked me to return it for inspection, repair or replacement, which I did.
3.  Lee sent me a replacement die, which looks identical to my original.
4.  I have tried another Die of the same vintage and after 30 case forming operations on the "RC" press, it shows about .010" of Carbide ring retraction into its die body.
5.  This second 'old' die will continue to be used until I see the retraction stop.  then I will try machining the bottom of the die flush with the end of the Carbide ring, to see if it will stay in the same position in the future.
6.  The "new" die is placed in storage with the other part of the second die set as a backup, the first die set, including this second 'old' die will remain the set in use.

Now I need to get to expanding more of the on hand .22 Hornet case necks to .250" ID so I can make more 'parent' cases for my .25 Stevens experiments.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I now have an additional 100 Hornet cases resized to .276" body diameter and I found the Second Die Carbide ring has set back into the body about .026".  So it seems these 'vintage' Lee Carbide .25ACP sizing dies do not have an internal shoulder to hold the ring flush with the die body bottom, but may have one slightly further in, possibly a Production Design detail choice.

I will need to get some more .22 Hornets to rework for further verification of where it will stop setting back.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Found some more .22 Hornets to reform and also found that the "RC" press is powerful enough to allow 'coining' the case rim down from .070" thick to .050" thick which saves machining top to thin the rim; but leaves turning the rim diameter as it spreads out from the Coining operation.  Also, I find that I need to run the formed and trimmed cases through my De-capping die to open out the 'squeezed' flash hold again.  The "second' Carbide .25ACP die ring was set back to .028" from the body bottom and seems to have stopped moving now so I turned the die base even with the Carbide ring then further turned it so the Ring is about .003" to .005" 'Proud' of the die base.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

This Model 44 project is on hold due to both my lack of 'Discretionary Spending Funds' to have my gunsmith properly fit my Breech Block to the Receiver.  I was able to obtain a 'New Old Stock' Breech Block (BB) and it is slightly too long for the Receiver, although I was able to use my home hand tools to fit a new pivot pin for it in both the Receiver and the BB so it will start out a 'tight fit'.

The Case forming process proceeds in 'fits and starts' as I wait for funds to buy working supplies.  Forgoing a 'few Lunches' to buy some 'hobby tubing' to make into Blank Adapter cases for use with .25 PTL Blanks in .25 Stevens chambers is one such project.   

Being in 'Retirement' with a slowly decreasing Low Income stream is no Fun, at least for me, as this month I have to stretch two Vehicles, fuel tank fill to cover the whole months 'errand' driving and potential emergencies.  I hope to have enough money nest month to take my two dogs (both about 8 years old) to the Vet for their annual physical and Booster Shots.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Good news-Bad news time of year:  Property taxes are due, vehicle Registrations are due, Utility Bills are due, my Medications refils form the V.A. are "Expected to be delivered in December" with the Good news that I will be getting an additional $85.00 a month from my Movie Industry Pension Fund annuity.  Still less than the $4000.00 a month I hoped to retire with as continuing income.
So I continue to skimp and defer things because of the Economy and Government activity.

I presently have four Rifles waiting for my gunsmith to have 'background shop time to work on to save money but I do have one back for my Testing before finishing is done.  It is a "Modified Stevens 1915 Action set up for .25Stevens Rf but with a .22LR positioned Firing pin tip.  I will be using Adapter cases with .22RF blanks centered in the .25Stevens sized case, made form .22 Hornet brass resized down to .25 Stevens dimensions.

There are more Actions just waiting for my gunsmith to finish the present 'projects' before I submit them to him: Two Stevens Model 44 Actions, a Relining job, and a couple of RF to CF conversions on Stevens Breech Blocks so I can interchange them for more versatile Experimentation.

So far this year I have had two days of Work through my Union Dispatcher.  not really enough to keep even but better than none.  I am hoping for some more work before the end of the year.

At least the last work day provided money for a good Thanksgiving.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[rbertalotto]

Hi Chev,

Thanks for updating this thread. I find it most interesting.

I have a Stevens 44 with a relined 22RF barrel. I did the relining with a Redman liner and it shoots great.

I picked up a couple of "Sewer Pipe" barrels here on the internet with shot out bores that I'd like to rebore or line into other calibers.

I currently load for these antique rounds.... 38-40, 44-40,  38S&W, 38-44 S&W Target

Is it possible to convert the firing pin to work on both RF and CF?

How difficult would it be to find a breech block with a CF pin?

Any other comments you might have would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Chev. William]

Rbertalotto,
Re:

Is it possible to convert the firing pin to work on both RF and CF?

How difficult would it be to find a breech block with a CF pin?

Any other comments you might have would be appreciated.

First: With difficulty, the general answer is Yes.
You will need to solid plug the original firing pin bore and then Drill/Mill a new Bore for the Firing pin such that the "hammer" end is on the same horizontal plane as the original and the 'breech face' is on he horizontal plane of the Barrel Center line but offset to one side so that a single 'offset tip' would line up, in one orientation, with the Barrel Center line at the Breech Face; then when rotated 180 degrees the same 'offset tip' would line up with the rim of the RF cartridge.   I believe a bore diameter of .2505", offset .070" to one side would allow you to fit an offset tip of .076" diameter into the body of the new firing pin so that the two rotation positions are .140" apart.  the face of the Breech Block would need to have two holes bored on the plane of the firing pin bore to accommodate the pin tip protrusion in the two positions.  
Retention relief cuts would need ot be made on two sides of the new pin to fit the model 44 pin retaining screw.  Also consider using a light Firing pin retract spring to insure the pin tip is retracted flush or slightly inset, to the Breech Face when the hammer is in half cock or full cock positions.

Second:  Difficult as I have been looking and they are not normally available for sale, the owners like them Too Much.

Third:  Make a Drawing of the Breech Block as presently configured with all the pertinent dimensions.  then draw the proposed RF/CF modifications to verify the ACTUAL angle you would need to bore the holes at for the pin to move freely in both positions ,RF and CF.   It is ALWAYS easier to modify a drawing many times than to modify Metal after miss drilling a hole or holes.
NOTES:
The firing pin bore as described is offset to the side but is still within the striking face of the hammer.  
The bore in the Vertical plane trends upward from the Hammer end toward the Breech Face end.  
The Bore is parallel to the Barrel Center line in the Horizontal plane.
The Firing pin Tip clearance holes must be on the same angle as the firing pin bore for the pin to slide freely.
The firing pin Tip holes should be a close fit on the Tip diameter, say about .080" for a .076" nominal pin tip diameter.
The firing pin tip may be made from a 5/64" x 1/2" Dowel Pin press fitted in to a proper hole drilled in the end of the .2495" to .2500" diameter Firing Pin Body. ( I suggest using Drill Rod for the Body, with Heat Treatment after machining. to about RC40 final hardness.  
Leave the Dowel Pin as received as to Heat Treatment, and leave it 'long' when first fitted so you can trim it to proper extended protrusion after the Firing pin is assembled.

I hope this answer is of use to you.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Further Comments on a convertible RF/CF Stevens Model 44 Breech block:

The offset bore should be Away from the Threaded side of the Breech Block (threads for the Firing Pin Retaining Screw/pin).
The amount of offset may be worked out by reviewing the Radius of the rims of .22RF, .25RF, and .32 Rf cartridges.
  The .22 Long Rifle has a rim diameter of about .278", or a Radius of .139".
  The .25 Stevens Long has a rim diameter of about .333", or a Radius of .165".
  The .32 Long has a rim diameter of about .377", or  a Radius of about 188".
  The difference between smallest and largest is .049", which is conveniently less than my suggested 5/64" diameter firing pin tip.

Taking the mean will be about a .164" radius to hit all three RF rims with the 5/64" pin tip.
Dividing that by two yields the amount of horizontal offset of the proposed new Firing pin body bore, or .082".

This is also the tip offset radius in the Firing pin body.

As envisioned, the assembled firing pin with the offset tip if inserted with the tip to the "Right' would line up with a CF primer; and if rotated and inserted with the offset tip to the 'left' would line up with all three RF rims.

Using the Model 44 threaded end long shank retaining screw/pin, this makes the change over moderately simple.

Example: if switching between .32 Long and .32 Long Colt; only the the tip position in the Breech Block needs adjusting.
Although to change its position, the Lever, Extractor, Link, and Breech Block should be removed to gain access to the retaining screw and Firing pin.
Remove the firing pin, rotate it 180 Degrees about its long axes, and reinsert it and its retaining screw/pin then reinstall the lever-link-Breech block and Extractor in the Receiver.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I have the Replacement original use trigger I was seeking, thank you all.
I need a part for my Build up of a Stevens 44 Receiver / Action:
Looking to buy a Stevens 44 type Trigger that is about 5/16" wide and has a Pivot Hole nearest edge to 'Sear Tip' length of at least 5/16" and preferably .330".  This is so I can get the Hammer to properly clear the Breech Block and Firing pin in 'Half Cock' position and still work in 'Full Cock 'position.
Please PM me if you have one to offer.

Best regards for a SAFE New year,
Chev. William

Added 20150107:  I found a "too Short" '44' Trigger and have had a Professional Aerospace Certified Welder add some 'Hard Alloy' weld to the Sear Tip, now I need to shape and trim to correct length and 'Fit' it to my Hammers (I have three of the same pattern giv or take a few thousandths..  I am Still interested in an original fo the correct length  Chev. William.

[Chev. William]

Today I received a Used Original Stevens '44' Trigger I purchased off Ebay and it fits without modifications.
My hammer now sits at the proper distance from the Breech Block when in "Half Cock" position and is moved to that condition as the Action is opened.

I will keep the welded one as a Spare in case of need.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today's mail delivery brought me my new CPA Rifles Model 44 forearm in Grade 3 Wood to go with the used Paul Shuttleworth 'Bench Rest' Butt stock I previously won on an Ebay auction.  This forearm is the Single screw type for a Half Octagon-Half round '44' barrel and it fits my used Stevens "44" barrel in ".22LR" Very Nicely.  The 'figure' in the wood is somewhat visible under the machined but not sanded surfaces and looks like it will finish up Beautifully.  There is still some sanding to be done on the area just behind the 'Schnabel' tip as my fingers found a slight rough spot there.

Another item to be decided is whether or not I want to fit a Detachable Swivel stud to the Forearm; I have an M1A with a detachable swivel stud that takes a Biped rest if I desire.
IF I do, I will also need to figure out where the Stud should be located on the Forearm.

In the interim, I can admire it.

Not going to work on it as it is raining here this evening.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

We have a warm spell here so beginning to work outside again.

My 'later' '44' Action is in the hands of my gunsmith to finish fit my used .300 Win. Mag. barrel (cut down and turned for .32 Long Colt Chamber) to my action, cut the Extractor to match, and add a threaded 4130 Tube Forearm to the Barrel so it will be 'free Floating' from about 2" forward of the Action to the Muzzle.  He is also changing the Breech block to a CF version.

Now to start reforming .22 hornet Brass into .25 Stevens diameters as parents for my .25 caliber experiments.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Whether and funds to "Iffy" to get much done on my Stevens 44 Project, or any other project, swinging rapidly from low 90s to Low 60s with Rain in the Cold periods.  No Work Calls so far except one Tentative one hat was canceled the same day.  I have not had funds to buy some needed tool bits to mount two forearm stocks on their Barrels, it has been that tight for me and my two dogs.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My "Project Stevens 44" is Slowly getting done at my gunsmith.  The Barrel is finally in the Receiver and cut for Breech block fit.  It has yet to be chambered and the Extractor relief cut.  This is a 'Re-purposed .300 Win. Mag. Stainless Steel Barrel.

My gunsmith has started the Conversion from RF to CF.  He has also fitted a Screw on Tubular Forearm to allow 'Full Floating' my Barrel.  The barrel will be supported from the Breech Block forward about 2" to where the Forearm tube stops making contact with barrel.  The front end has about 1/16" clearance all the way around.

I viewed the action, barrel, and Forearm tube temporarily assembled at my gunsmith's shop and it looks really good all "in the White" and shiny.

As previously reported, I have a very nice figured "Bench Rest Pattern" used Paul Shuttleworth butt Stock.  Also I have a Paul Shuttleworth made partly finished forearm but it is for an Octagon barrel so I will initially do without the wood on my Barrel's forearm tube.

The Shuttleworth forearm will go on a Stevens 44 Barrel I have that will be  used as an alternative Cartridge set up.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith is slowly getting this project to the Firing test Condition as a Low Priority "low cost" project.
He now is also going to be 'Cleaning and Slugging two Stevens .25 R.F. Half Octagon/Half Round Barrels to select the Better one for my 're-chamber' Candidate to Develop the newly published Wildcat "6.35x32mmSR STEWART" Cartridge in Loads of higher Pressures range than will be one in my 1915 Stevens Action.
As this Action has a "NOS" Breech Block that wedges tightly on the Receiver Rear Shoulders when in the Closed 'Battery' Position AND is fitted with slightly larger, later, Pivots for Breech Block and Lever I believe i twill be safe to something above 25,000psi MAP of current Rated RF Cartridges, which include the .17WSM with it's .276"-.278" Case diameter.

As this C.F. Wildcat uses .250" nominal Bullets, it is in Keeping with the 'Tradition of the .25 Stevens R.F. series'.
It is also a 'Lengthened .25ACP' Cartridge design for Rifle use.

Now Back to forming Brass.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Nearly Halloween and I have been "Puttering" while waiting for my gunsmith to complete the CF conversion of my Stronger Model 44 Action.
I have now completed reforming 400 out of a Lot of 1000 once Fired 5.7x28mm into 6.35x32mmSR cases.  This is in addition to about 150 previously picked up "here and There".  Zero Loss in the 400 done lately.

I have also reformed about 200 .22 hornet New Brass into parent .25-10 Halsted .250ALRM cases with about a 5% loss rate in the Reforming.

There are also 50 of the formed 6.35x32mmSR cases that have been Trimmed to 1.125" case length for Load Development and Testing of a new proposed Wildcat; the "6.35x28.6mmSR STEWART" as an 'easier to form' alternative to the .25-10 Halsted (made from .22 Hornet cases).

My gunsmith is off on Location the Last two Weeks working for a Production Company so no progress on my projects the last two weeks.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Another "Progress Report" on my  Stevens 44 Modified Action:
My gunsmith has the Cut in the Barrel for the Extractor done and The Action now opens and closes properly on the New Extractor and 'new' cut down .300 Win Barrel. next is trimming to length to fit the .32 Long Colt cases, cutting The Rim clearance into the Face of the Extractor and verifying the Chamber Depth and diameter with a Proper Chamber Reamer (Provided).

My Gunsmith was out of town for a time on Movie Locations so the Work has been Delayed.

He also has a "New Project" from me, Cutting and fitting a 10-5/8 inch .25ACP/6.35 Browning Barrel Blank to a Used Ruger .22 Cal Single Six, Converting it to CF from RF, and Modifying the Timing to properly index some 8-shot replacement Cylinders, reamed and chambered in three different Cartridges: .25ACP; .250ALRM/6.35x32mmSR; and .25 Stevens/6.35x28.6mmSR.

On a negative note;  I was involved in a 6 vehicle Freeway accident and my 2006 Dodge Dakota 'Night Runner' Quad Cab pickup was badly Damaged on Both Front corners and the Drivers side Front Suspension , along with the Left side doors.

No Air bags deployed in any Vehicle, everyone involved appeared to be uninjured.  A Police report was Taken and Investigation done at he Scene.  Now I am starting a search for: A.  what it will take and cost to restore my existing truck; and B.  What is available as a replacement if it is 'totaled".  

Please 'Wish me luck' in my Searches.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ndnchf]

Glad you are ok, that's the important thing. Trucks are replaceable.

[Chev. William]

Thank you for the Good words and thoughts.

The Damaged Truck does have some "sentimental value" as it was a 'Present' to me from my Wife in April 2009 and she Died in October 2009.

A friend and I are Starting the 'Search' for a 'suitable Replacement' annd Saturday I plan to look at At Least Three Candidates.
It seems Dodge Was the only Company that choose to make the "Dakota Size' Truck, about Half way between A 'Compact one like a Ranger or S-10' and a full size one like a Ford F150 or Dodge 1500.  The 4/5 seating for Adults in the 'Quad Cab full four door Arrangement and part time 4x4 4.7L V-8 Drive train proved useful over the Years.  And I found the 5-1/3 foot Bed, with a Folding cover, full bed liner, and Locking tailgate would carry  two 'Mobility Scooters' quite handily Our tow dogs, on an old 'moving Blanket' were comfortable on the Back Seat, and the Under-seat storage allowed me to carry My Trailer Hitch(s) and Tie Down Straps securely.
I have LT265/70R17 tires on it with 16,515 miles on them since new so I am hoping to transfer them to the 'replacement when found'.  These Have a 40,000 mile Guarantee service with "road Hazard Replacement for the First 50 % and Pro rated replacement for the Remaining 50%.

The friend Who is helping me look for the Replacement also would like the damaged Truck so I have a way to 'dispose of the 'remains after I have a Replacement in hand.  The Initial Insurance offers are about $1400 different between Surrendering the Remains to the Insurance company and Keeping them, with a Total of about Low 'Blue Book" value Dealer Retail. and I still have about $3200 left on The Vehicle Loan.

Hopefully, my Maintenance records will convince them to up the offers some.

Again, thank You for your Kind Words and please pray I am successful in finding a suitable replacement for my Truck at a Price I can afford.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Sadly No PT&G Reamer came in the USPS Christmas Eve delivery.
But some other Orders form other suppliers Came so it is a "Happy Christmas" for me.

May All Have a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
"Joy to the/World. . . . "
Best Regards,
Chev. William