Misfires in 1860 Conversions

[Mean Bob Mean]

Did some searches but could not find related topics, so sorry if this question has been covered:

Shot a match today (missed two so not clean--aaaarrrrgh!) and had three or four misfires where the pistol clicked, no fire, ran through all cylinders and "boom" she went off.  These are 1860 Uberti Conversions in .44 colt shooting factory ammo.  One failed to fire a second time through. 

Ideas??

Thanks amigos

[Pettifogger]

Under rotation, over rotation, firing pin to short, etc.   Could be a bunch of things.  The first thing to consider is did you change the main spring?  Second, have you adjusted the arbors for proper fit?  Once the arbors are fit, then (actually these are usually done during the fitting process) you can check head space and primer protrusion.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Under rotation, over rotation, firing pin to short, etc.   Could be a bunch of things.  The first thing to consider is did you change the main spring?  Second, have you adjusted the arbors for proper fit?  Once the arbors are fit, then (actually these are usually done during the fitting process) you can check head space and primer protrusion.

Thanks Pettifogger.  Guns are stock, first time this has occurred.  Someone at the shoot said the "safeties" on the hammers could be causing the issue?

[Mike]

Had the same issue with my 44 sp open top yesterday, my one has had the arbor sorted for fit. Fed primers and all went when I put them in my Richards.

[Pettifogger]

Thanks Pettifogger.  Guns are stock, first time this has occurred.  Someone at the shoot said the "safeties" on the hammers could be causing the issue?

The safeties certainly can cause problems, especially if the screw is a bit loose.  Most people either remove them (which leaves an ugly hole) or clean the parts good and red loctite them in place.

[Fox Creek Kid]

My money's on FP protrusion.

[Mean Bob Mean]

My money's on FP protrusion.

Firing pin protrusion? 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Firing pin protrusion? 

Yes.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Yes.

How does one fix this evil?

[Pettifogger]

How does one fix this evil?

First of all it is not all that common.  Lots of other things to check before trying to un-rivet the existing pins and finding new ones.  (No one that I know of makes replacement pins.)  Just to make sure, we are talking about a CONVERSION and NOT an 1872?  Conversions have an adapter plate and have the firing pin riveted to the hammer.  72s don't have an adapter plate and have firing pins held in with a pin.  There are replacement firing pins for the 72s.  Firing pin protrusion is how far the firing pin sticks out through the recoil shield.  Should be .050 - .055".  Easy to measure on an open top since you can remove the barrel and cylinder and get a direct measurement of the protrusion.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Right, 1860 conversions and not the OTs.  Thanks mate, you're an aboslute gem of a guy to help me so. 

[rbertalotto]

I had the same problem. Here is how I fixed mine:

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/1860-pietta-colt-soft-hammer-face-fix.html

[Pettifogger]

I had the same problem. Here is how I fixed mine:

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/1860-pietta-colt-soft-hammer-face-fix.html

I do the same thing on C&B "conversions."  The OP seems to have the Uberti factory 1860 conversions since he mentioned the hammer safety.  Those have firing pins riveted to the hammer and not a firing pin floating in the conversion ring.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I had a boatload of misfires once in my '60 Army RM .44 Colt conversion because I got a wild hair up you know where and decided to use a Sinclair carbide primer pocket uniformer on some old brass. I learned the hard way what Elmer Keith meant when wrote about primer pockets stretching both ways. Many of the primers then sat too deep for reliable ignition. Scrapped all the brass. 


Since the OP probably didn't do this that would not be the problem. I guess my next question would be as Pettifogger asked earlier, have you monkeyed with any springs? What's the ammo? Reloads?

[rbertalotto]

Too bad you scrapped all that brass. A brass drift inserted into the case and resting on an anvil. A good smack on the brass drift will set the pockets back to usable.

[rifle]

I'd check the brass fired and see if the firing pin strikes in the center of the primer.

CCI primers(anvil slightly different) are more likely to fire if the strike of the firing pin is off center.

I'd check the protrusion of the firing pin by looking at the primers also to see if the strikes are shallow.

The cylinder gap may need checked too. The hammer may be hitting the sides of the recess in the frame. The trigger may be striking on the half cock some too when the hammer is dropping.

Looking for any deformation to the firing pin may show it isn't going in the hole well since it enters an an arc.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Looking for any deformation to the firing pin may show it isn't going in the hole well since it enters an an arc.

Noted, all good advice, thanks!

[Crow Choker]

Nothing to do with firing pin problems with 1860 conversions or Open Top's, but the problem Fox Creek Kid on his March 24th post reminded me of the time I to overworked some 38 Spec brass primer pockets. I had reloaded 200 rounds of SWC's to be used as practice for the upcoming County Law Enforcement Qualification shoot. The brass were all of mixed brand and probably old enough to vote. I'm a quarter Scot-Irish which as I've been told makes me 'cheap', a hoarder, etc, at least that's what I've always heard and been told. Wanting to have 'top-of-the-line' practice ammo, I took extra pains to do it right. Brass trimmed, powder and bullets right, and primer pockets nice and clean. I, at the time had a primer pocket cleaner that you placed in the pocket and it had a threaded shaft that when you placed the flat end into the primer pocket, you then ran the handle up and down. The flat end 'grubbed' out all the residue as the shaft twisted. Guess by using the old well reloaded brass that had the pockets probably stretched horizontally some anyway, I think in my quest to have really clean pockets, I 'milled' em' out vertically too. Out of the four fifty rd boxes, I had maybe 15 non-firers, shooting them in my Colt Trooper. The primers just showed small contact dents. When seating primers, I use a Lee Hand primer, then run my finger over the seated primer to catch any high and hopefully primers seated to deeply. At the time I didn't feel anything suspect. Most of the rds fired after retrying them a 2nd time. Three or four never did. Never had that problem before or again. I tossed the primer pocket cleaner, never did really like it and it was starting to wear anyway. Glad the rounds I had problems with weren't being used for the qualification round. Went on to that using some department ammo and scored somewhere around 98.9%, got beat out of first place by .2 of a point. Just posted to readd Fox's post to caution you all on the possibility of over doing the pocket. I tossed the brass to, but still hang on to brass until all possibilities of any use are exhausted. Color me cheap!!!!!  

[Fox Creek Kid]

Crow Choker, years ago there was an article by a top shelf gunwriter on handgun accuracy. He did an exhaustive test and reached the conclusion that THE two most important things you could do to increase accuracy were to trim all NEW cases to the same length and uniform the primer pockets. Observe I said NEW brass. We learned the hard way.   

[Crow Choker]

I always check the length of new brass, check the primer pocket, and resize. Have talked with some guys who figure new brass is ready to go right out of the bag. Have found a few 'tall boys' over the years and once found a small chunk of brass wedged in the primer hole that would have interfered with primer detonation, ie misfire for sure.