FANNING A SIXSHOOTER

[The Arapaho Kid]

Now....I know what fanning is and I know why it's not allowed in SASS...safety!  That muzzle is all over the place when this is done!  I guess my question on this is.....fanning is a Hollywood thing...right?  Real, old time cowboys, or gunslingers really didn't fan their weapons...did they?  It seems to me that by fanning a sixshooter...you can get the lead out there double quick, but what are the possibilities of hitting your target?  The broad side of a barn....no problem, but a man standing a few feet away as in a show down seems a little mission impossible to me. 

So what are your thoughts on this.  Has anyone ever seen someone fan a sixshooter and actually hit CAS type targets?  Do they have fanning contests...outside of SASS?  I know there are a lot of people out there who are into that quick draw stuff.  I've seen these guys perform and it reeks of Hollywood.

[Grizzle Bear]

Fanning is also specifically prohibited by NCOWS rules.

As you say, the likelihood of actually hitting a target is pretty poor.

And the only time I was ever foolish enough to attempt this procedure, I broke a brand-new gun.

I think it's pretty safe to say this is a Hollywood invention, like tied-down buscadero holsters.

Grizzle Bear

[Camille Eonich]

I believe that the quick draw people fan.  They just have to bust a balloon though.

[Danny Bear Claw]

Many, many moons ago I used to do a form of quick draw, (informal).  We would stand, man to man, facing each other at a distance of about 6 feet apart.  Between us was a glass screen with some sort of sensors imbedded in it.  We fired corn cob loads which would register hits on the screen and relay the info to a computer read-out.  Guns were specially modified to be fanned.  We started with the gun holstered in a low slung buscadero type rig, tied down, hand on the gun and all the while pressing down on the trigger.  At the signal we would draw as fast as possible and fan off a single shot.  My best time ever was .66 seconds.  The hombre I was drawing against that night got off his shot in .56 seconds, however, the computer indicated his shot hit the ground right between my feet while my shot went right through his belly button.  Since accuracy counted as much as time, I won.

In the real world I've always heard you should never fan a sixgun as it can cause internal damage to the gun.  Hell, even Ruger advises you not to fan the big, strong Vaquero.  Good enough for me.   

[The Arapaho Kid]

Danny:
The ones I saw did, in fact, fan off their shot from the hip.  They shot at a plexiglass screen with a full sized painting, or print of an owlhoot in a getting ready to draw position.  They were shooting some kind of wadding out of their sixshooters and when that wadding hit the screen a time was regestered on a time clock to the left of the screen.  It was interesting to watch, but, correct me if I'm wrong about this:  Back in the real Old West there wasn't a whole lot of showdowns on the streets.  There were gunfights, to be sure, but none of those Hollywood type call outs and showdowns.  I think those call outs and showdowns are a Hollywood invention just to make those old B Movies from the 40's and 50's interesting.

Your thoughts on that?

[Marauder]

There is at least one documented case in the old west where a fella fanned his gun.  He lost....  enough said.

[The Arapaho Kid]

Fanning is also specifically prohibited by NCOWS rules.

As you say, the likelihood of actually hitting a target is pretty poor.

And the only time I was ever foolish enough to attempt this procedure, I broke a brand-new gun.

I think it's pretty safe to say this is a Hollywood invention, like tied-down buscadero holsters.

Grizzle Bear

Grizz:   My gun leather is a Buscadero rig.  I know!  It reeks of Roy, Hoppy, Gene and the Lone Ranger and has "Hollywood" plastered all over it, but I like that style of gun rig.  I shoot Gunfighter and a cross draw rig like most folks wear doesn't work too well in that class.

[Stump Water]

I believe that the quick draw people fan.  They just have to bust a balloon though.

Two types.  Blanks & wax boolits.

http://www.fastdraw.org/index.html

Click on "Fast Draw Resource Center" at the bottom of the menu on the left, then scroll down to the "Video Clips" link.  Some interesting watching, but not my cup o' tea.  Looks kinda boring.

[Big John Wyatt]

John Wesley Hardin and Dallas Stoudenmire's killer Jim Manning both owned "belly guns" that had been modified to shoot only by fanning the hammer. Jim finished off Dallas with that belly gun. I'm sure there are other examples, but these are the two I know of off hand.

[E.R.Beaumont]

Howdy Pards/Pardettes,

Kid, Pard the guns that they use for fanning quick draw are specially set uo for it.  Most use custom parts built stouter for it, take a close look at the hammer shape.  The big Boys tell us that CAS beats our guns up fanning is even  harder on them. 

There is also the fact that your hand will take a beating. There will be cuts and gouges and bruises untill the callouses build up and you get good at it.  Even then I see the Pards doing a "Michael Jackson" . (only one glove)

As far as accuracy goes I don't think that most could hit the BSB from the inside.  That said we all know that some people will practice something till they can do it so there may be some that can put 5 under a four bit piece across a pool table, but I wouldn't bet that many could.

Big John, Pard I think that those Belly Guns were set up to sliphammer, however the hammers on the '60 Army was set at a higher angle so it would be easier to "find" it to fan than a '73 SA Army.

Regards, Beaumont

[Big John Wyatt]

E.R., based on the  rules of CAS shooting you are correct sir.

In 1882, I doubt there was much difference in the meaning of terms. The gun used to kill Dallas had no trigger and the hammer was simply pulled back by whatever means and released.I would call that fanning. I was responding to the historical part of Arapaho's question, which is the least important part it seems.

[Bucksaw]

I watched a special on the history channel and it had several instances of fanning, and usually the people performing the fan lost.

[Danny Bear Claw]

Was fanning a hollywierd invention?  No.  Was the stand up face-to-face shoot out a hollywierd invention?   Again, no.  There are documented cases of both in the old west but both were rare occurances.  Wild Bill and Dave Tutt had a stand up, face-to-face shoot out which Wild Bill won through accurate shooting.  Tutt won second place, the prize for which was a pine box and a whole bunch of dirt in your face.

As posted above, the guy who fanned his sixgun usually took the second place prize.  Speed with a gun was a good thing but accuracy usually won in the end.  Even Wyatt Earp said you have to learn to take your time in a hurry.  He meant that accuracy was better than speed.  One can be fast while fanning but I would suggest that the man shooting back with deliberate, aimed fire will in all likelyhood, still be standing when the smoke clears. 

[Coop Trawlaine]

Fanning is purely a Hollywood Invention......Bob Bozell the western historian,,,just recently gave the background for "fanning", it came about by Hollywood trying to have westerns compete with War movies,,,the felt that fanning the hammer made it sound more like an automatic firing weapon.   There is no historical record of this method of cocking and firing a single action pistol in the Old West.

[Camille Eonich]

Fanning
And then there's hip-shooting's first cousin and an even more spectacular feat: fanning.  Instead of firing a pistol from the hip by pulling the trigger, a shootist ties the trigger back, or removes it altogether, and then moves the heel of his hand over the hammer, pulling it back, letting it fall, and then repeating the motion.  Alas, all that anyone ever accomplished by fanning was to create a lot of unnecessary noise.

No one can fan a six-gun and hit anything.  In outdoor magazines of the 1920s, a controversy surrounded the subject.  It was settled by one individual in a forthright manner.  He posted a $1000 certified check, to go to anyone who could fan a revolver and hit a target, even at ridiculously short ranges.  The offer was widely publicized, but the check was never claimed.

http://www.desertusa.com/mag05/jul/myths.html

[Coop Trawlaine]

Cam,   Great article........

It brought to memory a story (true) that I heard when I was younger.   My father was in the movie industry and they were talking about a director, I can't remember his name, who was doing one of the television westerns.  This director was a young boy in the mid-late 1890s and had actually seen a so called shoot out, that was between a Marshal and some "bad men".  So when the Hollywood sterotype cowboy Marshal was doing his "quickdraw magic" this director stopped the action and went to show the actor just how the real Marshal shot his weapon.

The director pulled the pistol from a waist high holster, took his time holding the pistol two-handed and aimed, hitting those he was shooting at.  This was unbelievable to those on the set.    The Marshal that he was mimicking was Wyatt Earp.  

Because of the inaccuracy of the original BP loaded revolvers very few men in any form of "shoot out" rarely died from a fatal bullet in the sense of the word today.  Most bullets received by the poor man's body were not necessarily through the heart or between the eyes being instantly fatal, what they did die of was lead poisoning because of the infection from the lead bullet and rare or poor doctoring.

[Grizzle Bear]

Coop said:

"Because of the inaccuracy of the original BP loaded revolvers very few men in any form of "shoot out" rarely died from a fatal bullet in the sense of the word today.  Most bullets received by the poor man's body were not necessarily through the heart or between the eyes being instantly fatal, what they did die of was lead poisoning because of the infection from the lead bullet and rare or poor doctoring."

Well, I do have to say that those guns were as accurate as any handgun can be.  Reading any accounts of old-time shoot-outs does reveal a serious lack of marksmanship amongst the participants.

Grizzle Bear

[LazyK Pejay]

Here are a couple of articles on the subject:

http://www.bbhc.org/pointsWest/PWArticle.cfm?ArticleID=129

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WWgunfighters.htm

LazyK Pejay

[Danny Bear Claw]

First of all... the DesertUSA article contains a lot of fertilizer.  I read all of it quite a while back and it was thoroughly hashed out on the SASS wire.  Modern handguns may be a "little" more accurate than old cap-n-ball pistolas but the difference isn't much.

As to the fatality of wounds, well... lead poisoning is a fairly slow process as compared to gangrene.  Someone wounded in the old west would quickly come down with gangrene, which was quick, read... much faster than lead poisoning.  If shot in the leg or arm with a bp gun back in the old west and the limb was not aputated soon, gangrene would surely ravage your body and kill you long before lead poisoning ever became a concern.  The reason for this was the bullet lubes used at the time.  Most lubes were rendered from animal fat, ( bear grease, possum grease, etc. ).  Bullet lubes made from the rendering of animal fats contained lots of nasty bacteria.  This is why so many Civil War wounded had stumps where legs and / or arms used to be.   

[Snake River Cowboy]

Saw Munden on TV one time run his thumb and fingers across the hammer firing 5 shots in about a second. Real slick gun and super light loads so it didn't have much recoil. Not exactly fanning-faster actually.