Glad that reproductions/clones are being made other than by Colt

[Virginia Gentleman]

I think new US based manufacturers need to be careful when pricing these guns, if they try to price them at near Colt SAA levels, they are going to fail simply because people will think (no judgement, just fact) that if they are going to spend that kind of money, I might as well buy a real Colt.  USFA did well when they were several hundred dollars below a Colt with superior quality as they built their brand, but, they let production costs escalate and then priced their product near what a new Colt commanded.  This caused their sales to slow and the rest is history.  If the Italians who have similar production costs, can make good SAA replicas at a decent price, then the US manufacturers should incorporate those efficiencies to keep costs lower and be more competitive.  I hope one rises like Standard, but I think their price point will not allow them to succeed.....I hope I am wrong.

[Cliff Fendley]

If the Italians who have similar production costs, can make good SAA replicas at a decent price, then the US manufacturers should incorporate those efficiencies to keep costs lower and be more competitive.  I hope one rises like Standard, but I think their price point will not allow them to succeed.....I hope I am wrong.

I've said this for a long time and Colt should be the first in line. With all the financial problems they've had and look at all the sales they loose to other people making their designs.

Even if Colt was double or three times what a Uberti is they would probably sell a ton of them if they were available....but they are about four times the cost and you can't even get one if you want to buy it.

I would like to buy a brand new black powder frame now, one of Colts cataloged items but dealers just laugh when I ask them how I could order it. Colt says it's not a custom item and to have a dealer order it and the dealers say it does no good to order it because they already have tons of other items on order that never show up.

[Major 2]

Unobtanium,     I had a standing order till my FFL retired and sold the Store

Being challenged & beaten by it's competitors and Copies , COLT only has it's hollowed Brand left really...

In a generation or two,  the Millenniums will have lost it to the ages.... so sad

[Coffinmaker]

Here is how it works.  Coltistas worship at the feet of the Prancing Horse.  Coltistas will tell you in no uncertain terms, the Colt SA is the finest SA on the planet.  Do NOT ATTEMPT to speak otherwise.  You will be SHOUTED down.  Loudly.  Never mind that view is KRAP.

COLT KNOWS for a fact, Coltistas will buy everything Colt makes, whatever they make, whenever they make it.  Good or bad.  There is basically no attention paid to what orders are do where.  There are only two, sometimes three guys at Colt assembling SAs.  That's it.  They assemble whatever comes down the line, then they ship guns to their prime dealers.  The Coltistas champion those guns no matter what they are.  Colt doesn't care they aren't making enough guns.  They have other irons in the fire.  And they are going broke.  Slowly dying.  Believe it.

Colt single action guns have all the same problems the other makers of SAs have for the CAS market.  Over Sprung, out of time, poor fit of action parts and take just as much work to make user friendly as Uberti.  Colt knows most of the Coltistas will never play with their guns.  They see their guns as a piece of "history."  That's BUNK.  Nothing more than a newly built SA.  THAT'S IT.

The best value for dollar in a CAS gun today is a Pietta built GW II.  You can get a pair for the price of a Colt.  I personally hate the term "CLONE." (Have I said that before??).  The replicas aren't clones.  They're reproductions.  Replicas.  Copies.  By in Large, better made than Colt guns.  Considering the HUGE selection available in reproductions from the established manufacturers, introducing a new copy of the SAA, priced well out of the competitive range, is a fools errand.

Soap Box Mode off.  Back to our regularly scheduled programming 

Coffinmaker   

[Major 2]

Coffin Maker, Pretty much sums it up .....

I expect , COLT  goes the way of Winchester ...Brand owned by Olin,  licensed to Browning,  in turn farmed out to Miroku .

[wildman1]

That's why Rugers are cheap as most of their Prescott labor force are temp workers who earn $10.50 hr. & no bennies. Sort of puts Ruger in a different light. 

What does Prescott have to do with revolvers? The Ruger revolvers are made in New Hampshire.
wM1

[Cliff Fendley]

What does Prescott have to do with revolvers? The Ruger revolvers are made in New Hampshire.
wM1

I wondered the same thing, the couple times I had to contact them about a revolver part or repair I was directed to New Hampshire.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I think Colt is on borrowed time and should have moved their operations completely out of Connecticut to a place like Texas, SC, Florida or Georgia.  The Colt SAA is not a super complex gun to make with modern machinery and methods, the Italians who have similar labor costs, can export it to us and retail it far below what Colt wants to charge.  Colt if they got out of the Northeast could cut costs to be competitive, but as you have said, they have other fish to fry.  I hope another US company makes a replica, but they will have to price it between the Colt and the imports.

[Cliff Fendley]

IMO if/when Colt goes down it's at least partly their own fault for not trying harder. They have the designs and the name to go with it and let others have the market. Colt acts like they don't even care. Poor way to run a business when you need the money which apparently they do.

[Virginia Gentleman]

IMO if/when Colt goes down it's at least partly their own fault for not trying harder. They have the designs and the name to go with it and let others have the market. Colt acts like they don't even care. Poor way to run a business when you need the money which apparently they do.

I completely agree, Colt is not making very wise moves in the market.  If they wanted to they could own the Colt SAA market and the imports would be struggling to compete, but no, they don't want to succeed.

[Major 2]

As far as I can ascertain ..they didn't go into the competition ....to replace the Beretta M9

U.S. Army announced that SIG Sauer will be the next supplier of pistols for the United States military.
The 10-year contract for the Sig Sauer is worth $580 million and will include both full-size and compact models.
Glock was the 1st also ran , Ruger & S&W  followed ....

When you also include the ammunition as part of the contract, its value is around $1.2 billion.

COLT never had a chance 

[Virginia Gentleman]

As far as I can ascertain ..they didn't go into the competition ....to replace the Beretta M9

U.S. Army announced that SIG Sauer will be the next supplier of pistols for the United States military.
The 10-year contract for the Sig Sauer is worth $580 million and will include both full-size and compact models.
Glock was the 1st also ran , Ruger & S&W  followed ....

When you also include the ammunition as part of the contract, its value is around $1.2 billion.

COLT never had a chance 

Colt didn't even try, plus they stay in a union controlled Northeastern state that is not helping them turn a profit.

[llanerosolitario]

They are very busy making rifles and also FN licensed machine guns for  the Us government and several police departments..their 1911 line Is also selling well for the discriminating customer.

The SAA market is not so big and they still make the 1873 for love and prestige rather than for money. The  forged American steel and finish, and the case hardening ( by Turn Bull) and extremely well made hand polishing ,  with  unblemished surfaces with just the rigth amount of gloss, with a very deep blueing, plus  higher labor costs in the US give no margin to lowerring prices.

It is a 100% USA made  product manufactured by skilled and well paid American workers. I have visited the factory in West Hartford,  Conn ticut, recently,  and I can testify that.

[Virginia Gentleman]

They are very busy making rifles and also FN licensed machine guns for  the Us government and several police departments..their 1911 line Is also selling well for the discriminating customer.

The SAA market is not so big and they still make the 1873 for love and prestige rather than for money. The  forged American steel and finish, and the case hardening ( by Turn Bull) and extremely well made hand polishing ,  with  unblemished surfaces with just the rigth amount of gloss, with a very deep blueing, plus  higher labor costs in the US give no margin to lowerring prices.

It is a 100% USA made  product manufactured by skilled and well paid American workers. I have visited the factory in West Hartford,  Conn ticut, recently,  and I can testify that.


Until recently, I would not say Colt made SAAs that were well finished and had over sprung and rough parts in them because they relied on people wanting their guns because of the pony, and not because it was anything other than a collector's item.  They even had a sticker warning you it would reduce its value to shoot it.  Glad they have made and improvement, but they still are over priced for some kind of mystique and US manufacturing. 

[llanerosolitario]

I can't agree. I have owned  Colts from different years of production during the last 20 years in several calibers....45 Colt..38 spl and 44/40....now  I have a third generation from 1978 and two recently manufactured revolvers from the custom shop.

The blueing has allaways being deeper and almost perfect in polishing and sanding as compared to the really poor blueing and casehardening in italian revolvers...accuracy in my experience has been more consistent in the Colts,,thanks to the zero differences among chambers in the same cilinder and thanks to an adequate diameter. I don't say they' re more accurate...I just say they are consistent, regular in results. I can't say the same about Uberti.


I don't have much appreciation for Italian replicas...I just don't trust their classic réplicas ..in my opinion allways  inferior in accuracy results to the original XIX century guns, and I am not the only one saying that. I prefer German, Spanish, American or Belgian replicas in general. Better steel in my opinion.

And in general, a better resale price, as Italian replicas have no collector value, and will never have. They' re just shooters.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I can't agree. I have owned  Colts from different years of production during the last 20 years in several calibers....45 Colt..38 spl and 44/40....now  I have a third generation from 1978 and two recently manufactured revolvers from the custom shop.

The blueing has allaways being deeper and almost perfect in polishing and sanding as compared to the really poor blueing and casehardening in italian revolvers...accuracy in my experience has been more consistent in the Colts,,thanks to the zero differences among chambers in the same cilinder and thanks to an adequate diameter. I don't say they' re more accurate...I just say they are consistent, regular in results. I can't say the same about Uberti.


I don't have much appreciation for Italian replicas...I just don't trust their classic réplicas ..in my opinion allways  inferior in accuracy results to the original XIX century guns, and I am not the only one saying that. I prefer German, Spanish, American or Belgian replicas in general. Better steel in my opinion.

And in general, a better resale price, as Italian replicas have no collector value, and will never have. They' re just shooters.



More perception than reality....with respect.

[yahoody]

Colt has always produced in-house and can document the process.

No they aren't and haven't been in over a century.  Colt doesn't own  the forging tools to make the frame as a start.

The "in house" bunk never was...if anything USFA should have clued the unwashed masses into that marketing gig.
No one in their right mind would make "every thing in house".   No one does.   It is why the gun industry is  and always has been a "cottage industry".

"Let us give a hearty round of applause to Uberti and Pietta."

Great thread!

[Chance]

Not being allowed to own a cartridge handgun means that my interest in this topic is purely academic.

I am interested in the so called "Cimarron US finish". Can I ask what this is, who does the finishing and how much extra does it cost?

Chance

[yahoody]

I am interested in the so called "Cimarron US finish". Can I ask what this is, who does the finishing and how much extra does it cost?

US finished blue and true case colors is $300 additional.  Nickel is $260 by their price list.  Who does it?  That is another question entirely.  Ford did the nickel for a while last I asked not sure if they do it now.  Various jobbers have done the blue and case.   Turnbull wants $800 to do it.  So suspect it aint them

[Abilene]

Partially correct.  

U.S. Finish used to be guns disassembled, frames sent to Turnbull.  Some had the blued parts Carbonna Blued by Turnbull.  That was an option, not all U.S. Finish guns had it.  A good while back Cimarron switched to Classic Guns for their bonemeal casecolor needs.  The blue  on the guns remains Uberti.  Some U.S. finish guns, particularly U.S. Cavalry, have Uberti Charcoal Blue.  

As for nickle, it is still Ford for stuff they need to send out.  Uberti does the nickle on the U.S. Scout version of the Cavalry, plus assorted other guns.  Remingtons, some conversions, etc.  

Chance, to answer your "what is it" question directly, it is having the frame and hammer sent out to be color case-hardened by the bonemeal charcoal method, which takes expertise but is true to the original design when it was done to strengthen the outer few thousandths of the metal.  Today's metals are hard enough to not need it, but it looks "right" and the colors are better and more durable than the "corner-cutting" way the Italians do it.