re: Winchester may reintroduce '73 .... topic

Blair · February 03, 2014, 03:19:50 PM

Major 2,

I think you have done a fine job on Moderating this thread.

I don't believe Wes is the one that should be starting a "new" thread. (this was tried)

The person responsible for disrupting the first thread with their verbal misuse and abuse of other members should be held to account for their actions. That person needs to apologize "Openly" to the forum for their misconduct.
This same individual is the one that should also be the one stating a "New" thread, rather than disrupting the information provided by so many other very responsible and intelligent postings.

Poor, or bad behavior should never be rewarded by being ignored.
Blair

PJ Hardtack · February 03, 2014, 03:59:29 PM

I presume that the brouhaha over Winchester "authenticity" extends to those chambered in calibres other than 44-40, 32-20 and 38-40 ..... ?

If it's chambered in .357 or .45 Colt, does it really matter whose name is on it and where it was made? And if it's being shot with a load that barely puts the bullet to the target, it becomes even more specious as an argument.

Ranch 13 · February 03, 2014, 04:10:05 PM

Quote from: Mean Bob Mean on February 03, 2014, 01:52:38 PM
On that Winchester link I notice that they are making the short rifle in .45 LC. They appear to be making the case hardened short rifle in three calibers but boo-boo'd on their editing. Is that one available in .45 as well?

Looks to me like they are only offering the case hardened in 357 or 44-40.

Blair · February 03, 2014, 04:17:36 PM

PJ,

The caliber chambering could be an issue for some folks.
However, verbal misuse and abuse by one individual on others is, or should be a non-issue.
That is what got the first thread deleted/locked down, and may be the cause of getting this one closed too.
Blair

KirkD · February 03, 2014, 04:21:54 PM

With regard to the limited run of colour case hardened '73's ...... was that the real bone and charcoal CC or was it the chemical colouring? If it was the real deal, that that would definitely be something to acquire.

Abilene · February 03, 2014, 04:24:48 PM

Quote from: KirkD on February 03, 2014, 04:21:54 PM
With regard to the limited run of colour case hardened '73's ...... was that the real bone and charcoal CC or was it the chemical colouring? If it was the real deal, that that would definitely be something to acquire.

On the one sample case-colored Miroku that I saw last year, the colors looked exactly like Uberti. FWIW.

Ranch 13 · February 03, 2014, 04:27:18 PM

Kirk I believe it to be the real case hardening.

And according to this they're putting fancy wood on them. Only 250 of the shotshow specials available

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?mid=534217&family=027C

Mean Bob Mean · February 03, 2014, 05:23:45 PM

"And according to this they're putting fancy wood on them."

I have seen a few .357s and a couple of them had really nice wood. I am definitely considering the CCH with upgraded wood.

Ranch 13 · February 03, 2014, 05:48:39 PM

Meanbob, if you want one of those with the case hardening, best get ahold of your local dealer and see if his distributor has one that's not spoken for. 250 of the rifle and 250 of the short rifle they are going to be really tough to get ahold of.

KirkD · February 03, 2014, 06:09:55 PM

I do not like the artificial chemical colouring that Uberti uses. The real bone and charcoal on the other hand is what the originals used and looks a lot different than the artificial CC Uberti uses.

Mean Bob Mean · February 03, 2014, 06:18:59 PM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on February 03, 2014, 05:48:39 PM
Meanbob, if you want one of those with the case hardening, best get ahold of your local dealer and see if his distributor has one that's not spoken for. 250 of the rifle and 250 of the short rifle they are going to be really tough to get ahold of.

I hear you. I just bought a new .38 revolver so I don't think I can pick one up this week. There are a few around, but one guy in town I would not buy it from as his prices are usually MSRP or better. There's a few on gunbroker in .357.

Ranch 13 · February 03, 2014, 06:44:00 PM

Quote from: KirkD on February 03, 2014, 06:09:55 PM
I do not like the artificial chemical colouring that Uberti uses. The real bone and charcoal on the other hand is what the originals used and looks a lot different than the artificial CC Uberti uses.

I'm with you on that, I also don't like the fireengine red stain uberti uses under their varnish.

Rowdy Fulcher · February 03, 2014, 08:14:36 PM

Howdy
Does anyone have a clue about production numbers for the year . I think the Sporting rifle is fine looking , but $1700 aint cheap . I hope they sell so dang many they have to build a factory in America to keep up with demand . God Bless America .

Cliff Fendley · February 03, 2014, 08:30:57 PM

The reddish stain on the Uberti's turn a lot of folks off.

I've been tempted to redo a couple myself but Uberti's stain color actually does complement the stocks on the plain originals pretty well. If you get the upgraded wood they don't have as much red look and if you look at original fancy wood models they didn't have as much red either.

Uberti is making reproductions so they are trying to copy the originals. They seem to have done their homework pretty well.

I notice on the link it said the rear tang is drilled and tapped for a scope mount. Do they mean a tang sight?

The ones I've seen I didn't think were drilled and tapped on the tang but that is a nice feature if they are, maybe that is just for the limited run.

No 1700 aint cheap but if it is real case color it's not out of line. Real case coloring on a Uberti is something like a 275 dollar option.

Mean Bob Mean · February 03, 2014, 08:54:56 PM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on February 03, 2014, 08:30:57 PM
Uberti is making reproductions so they are trying to copy the originals. They seem to have done their homework pretty well.

Doug Turnbull knows as much about restoring Winchesters as some of us do, he uses a reddish stain as well. Go figure.

Ranch 13 · February 03, 2014, 09:20:38 PM

The actual Winchester stain is more of a maroon or ruby. Uberti's red is a bit brighter, of course part of the difference could be the Amercian walnut verses what ever it is that Uberti is using for wood.

Rowdy there's only 250 of the case hardened guns this year.

KirkD · February 04, 2014, 07:50:40 AM

I took a look at a Winchester '73 Case hardened on Gunbroker. The case hardening looks like the real thing to me. Real CC tends to be affected by holes, edges and metal thickness. The cc'ing around holes, for example, should be significantly lighter then on areas further back from the holes. The one I looked at on Gunbroker had nice light rings around the holes and a colour pattern more in line with real CC'ing rather than the chemical colouring method.

Wes Tancred · February 05, 2014, 05:58:03 AM

The colour case hardening on replica firearms, including those made by Uberti, Chiappa, and Pedersoli, amongst others, is quite real, though it is often done by means of cyanide rather than packing in bone and charcoal. The cyanide process is entirely legitimate, and even some fine original rifles, such as Stevens single-shots, were finished in this way (though Winchester rifles were always case hardened by the bone and charcoal method). The case hardening on the new 1873s made at Miroku looks particularly good in this context.

Those who want a new 1873 with bone and charcoal case-hardening can purchase one through Navy Arms, through a partnership between Winchester and Turnbull:

http://www.navyarms.com/1873_rifles.html

Unfortunately, the stock, although of high-grade American walnut, is of a non-original shape, and it has a shotgun butt that is both ugly and incompatible with the proper manner of shouldering a rifle of this kind. I've never liked chequering on beautiful wood, since it obscures the grain.

Turnbull's case colours seem, in general, to have much more blue than original Winchesters. Mike Hunter, of Hunter Restorations, can replicate all of the original Winchester finishes perfectly, on an original or replica rifle. And indeed, one way to get a Winchester rifle with original finishes is to purchase a new one, or a replica, and send it to a restoration expert.

Ranch 13 · February 05, 2014, 07:56:10 AM

I don't really care for the case hardening on a Winchester, it's not representative of the every day gun. Historically the only ones that were presentation or special order. The bulk of them were blued, and so whenever they see fit to do the blued 38wcf and 32wcf I'm gonna have a lot of splainin to do to the bookkeeper.

The accountant doesn't think all firearms purchases can qualify for predator control tax deductions.

Cliff Fendley · February 05, 2014, 10:16:14 AM

I also like the blued receivers, it seems more authentic for a working gun. I much prefer the charcoal bone coloring otherwise I would just as soon have a blued.

The last guns I ordered from Cimarron I got the US finish and I ordered my 76 with a blued receiver.

I haven't seen one in person but from photos, regardless of how it is being done, it's better looking case coloring than what you see on a the standard Uberti which seems to get cheesier looking with every one they make.