Rifle accuracy???

[Mean Bob Mean]

I think it's embarrassing when the "plink" of the bullet on steel makes more noise than the report of the rifle, but that's just me.
I write up stages all the time that have to be changed to accommodate the fact many rifle loads are so quiet that they don't register on timers! That means no rifles at the end of a stage. Now that is pathetic.

Nicely said.

I thought the writeup in the new Speer reloading manual was interesting--that the reduced loads had become such an issue the author/editor felt compelled to address the point and his reasoning, that (besides the obvious danger some reduced loads had created) no man in the West would opt for reduced loads, was a sound argument. 

While I loaded Trail Boss for my first reloads (it wa sthe only powder I could procure that had data for the .44 Colt), my goal is to replicate original loads as much as is practicable, including in the future when I get a tad better at loading going to black powder loads. 

It should also be noted that besides gaming the clock, the other reason one finds reduced loads is that some shooters can't handle a full bore load.  One of my friends can't fire a full bore shotgun load, his shoulder is frail.  I don't begrudge him anything he does. 

[PJ Hardtack]

Your friend ought to consider the 20 gauge. No shame in that.

As for load tolerance, I know several women who shoot .45 Colt and .44 Spl. standard loads just fine.

In 'Wild Bunch', my 120 lb. wife shoots her 1911 with the same 170 power factor she uses in IPSC as opposed to the SASS-legal 150.
She also shoots factory 1 oz. 12 ga. loads in her shotguns with no recoil pads.

I started her with 12 ga. 7/8 oz. handloads but she soon got up to speed with the 1 oz. factory ammo.

[Mean Bob Mean]

I started her with 12 ga. 7/8 oz. handloads but she soon got up to speed with the 1 oz. factory ammo.

I suggested that to my pal, he is having surgery and hopefully will be back to shooting regular field loads.  1 oz 12s are a pleasure to shoot. 

[eljay]

i have an original 1919 .32-20 win.92 full mag rifle that will shoot 1 1/2" at 50yds all day, and a 30 yearold rossi .44-40 that shot a 3 shot group @50 off the bench of 3/4". not girlie loads either. depends what you want, i spend a lot of time at the range testing different loads to get the accuracy i do.

[rdstrain49]

Mean Bob, you bring up a very valid point, that of shooter disability/limitation.  I would much rather see your friend shoot reduced loads then not shoot.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I have an overbored rossi that with hard cast bullets pushed to near 44 mag velocities key holes and shoots about a 5 inch group at 25 yards.  It does just fine shooting hardcast regular lube or molykotes either billy or bear creek at with 850-900 fps out of pistol loads.  It will shoot 4 - 5 inch groups at 100 yards with desparado soft cast at reasonable velocities.  Prior to discovering Desparado bullets I decided I would not ever hunt with the rifle.  Now I am looking at a 100 yard deer / hog rifle.

[rdstrain49]

Range session today was not definitive but was very encouraging.  Temperature here was +7 degrees.  I'd picked up a '73 clone and decided to shoot a quick test group in spite of the weather.  25 yards standing unsupported = one ragged hole.  While this is not much of a test when it comes to rifle accuracy it is an encouraging start.  With the wind and temperature, 5 rounds was all I could tolerate.  Will know more by the end of the week when it warms up a bit.

[offthehook]

I'm relatively new to CAS (3 years) but I have adopted the same expectations I have always had for all of my hunting and target rifles and pistols. I always bench and zero each firearm to my desired range. I also experiment and keep records with factory, surplus and reloads as far as accuracy, function, recoil etc.  Once I find the best combo then I work on my part of the equation. I do not deal well with any firearm that does not shoot where it is pointed. I have run into some poor shooting guns in my time. Most issues all able to be resolved with a little work, especially on stocks or sights. The few I could not convince got disowned.

For my CAS rifles in 45 Colt I Have no trouble with accuracy, especially at the close ranges, but you can bet, where I point the bead, the bullet will go.  For my pistols, the same. No Kentucky windage for me. 

Just a new guys thoughts. 

[rdstrain49]

Agreed.  Weather has not been conducive  to testing ammo.  I have had one session at 50 yds.  Not great but not awful, my '73 is shooting about 1 1/2" groups at 50 yds.  Shows some promise.  If it will shoot 2" at 100 yds. I'll be OK with that.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Agreed.  Weather has not been conducive  to testing ammo.  I have had one session at 50 yds.  Not great but not awful, my '73 is shooting about 1 1/2" groups at 50 yds.  Shows some promise.  If it will shoot 2" at 100 yds. I'll be OK with that.

If it can, while not uncommon, it will be better than most levergun/shooter combinations can achieve. Ken Waters, and perhaps other gunscribes have said 4 moa is what can generally be accepted.  You are already better than that.

[rdstrain49]

Sounds like I might be on the right track.

[bear tooth billy]

Rd, as stated earlier in the post, there is no real need for 1 moa accuracy in cowboy shooting. Last year at the NCOWS national, I was
lucky enough to win the lever action long range match with my Uberti/Henry, at 170 yds  my front sight was covering about 16 inches
on a 12" target so it's pretty hard to talk about 1moa accuracy out of these sight/gun combinations. IMHO


                                         BTB

[rdstrain49]

Bear tooth, I do appreciate the input.  I well and truly understand that a lot of CAS targets are up close and big.  That has no bearing on what I expect from my weapons.  I'm intending to use a No 3 Russian in Working Cowboy (I think that's right).  At this time, I have the Russian shooting groups just under 1/2" at 25 yards.  Is it necessary for CAS, probably not, but I can see no harm in having an accurate weapon whether it be rifle or sidearm.