.44 Russian loads

[PJ Hardtack]

Can anyone recommend proven .44 Russian loads using:

- Unique
- Tite Group
- Trail Boss
- any other powder

- all with 200 gr bullets. I'm looking for something in the 750-800 fps range. My gun is the Uberti repro, not an original.

I've tried Venturino's load and find them a yawn. My WIFE finds them a yawn .....  ;>)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

What cha mean,YAWN!  If there are no real complaints, well, there are no real complaints.  I have seen many written statements that the 246-250 etc. bullets are more accurate but have no experience except with the 11.8 Reichsrevolver, and awhile it is similar you can't really compare that. Besides I only use BP in the old soldier.

I went to the old books;  PET LOADS; Ken Waters gives it a miss entirely, as does my older LYMAN Cast Bullet handbook omits it also. COTW 3d edition has no accuracy data, and NOTHING on the 200 grainer.  So, I can't help, yet!

[PJ Hardtack]

I've shot both 200 and 240 gr bullets in my Russian. Both shoot well, the 240 hitting predictably higher due to the longer dwell time in the barrel.

One of Venturino's recommended loads (3.7 Tite Group/200 gr RN) bounces bullets off our indoor range heavy belting backstop. That's embarrassing .....
The brass I'm currently using is cut down .45 Colt (Star-line) .44 Russian in the mail) so case wall thickness is not as per factory spec.
I had one bullet fail to make it out of the barrel! What I'm saying is that crimping was likely an issue.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

PJ; I also found that regular carbide .44 RMag dies sometimes don't neck down cases for the Reichsrevolver(.44Russ length).  I dug out an old RCBS steel die that had two diameters to make sure the neck was sized down enough.  You will need to find a way to crimp.

[PJ Hardtack]

I've got the RCBS "Cowboy" dies in .44 Russian c/w carbiDe sizer. My problems are not die related.

I'm going to try 5 grs Bulls Eye and 6 grs Unique both with 200 gr bullets. Those loads ought to give me the little more energy I'm looking for.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Those loads look safe. They are under what COTW shows for the 240-250 bullets

[Blair]

PJ,

I can't offer an alternative to your powder question.
I only load and shoot loads with .44 Russian with BP.
Reason being that I often shoot original S&W revolvers and BP is the only alternative for me.
This may not help in your quest. But, maybe worth looking into??
My best,
Blair

[Leverluver]

I use 5.2grs Unique in both 44 Russian and 44 Colt with 200s and they are not mouse farts.  The Alliant site (the same one you can go to yourself) lists a max of 5.4grs of Unique.  I wouldn't trust anything out of COTW.  They don't test anything and a lot of the loads come from very old manuals back in the good old days when there was no true pressure testing. I have a very old Lyman manual that list loads for 44 Rus and even 41 Colt so its pretty old.  I won't even quote the load as it definitely a +P if not a +P+.  BTW, the max Titegroup load in the Hodgdon manual (again, free on line) is 4.8grs for 963fps.  Hodgdon's velocities are very optimistic as they are from unvented barrels but that one should be in the 825-850 range in the real world.

[litl rooster]

I can't believe....... awh never mind

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Yeah! Perhaps these would have been better references;

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=5&weight=200&shellid=11&bulletid=14

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[PJ Hardtack]

The current Speer #14 manual lists for the 200 gr .44 Russian, no loads for 240:

- 5.4 Unique (max) for 887 fps
- 4.0 Bulls Eye (max) for 826 fps
- 3.9 Tite Group (max) for 814 fps

It states in the cartridge data:

"There are no US pressure standards for the .44 Russian. The charge levels were scaled from pressure-tested .44 Spl. data with the same bullet. These smokeless powder loads are intended for use in modern firearms only."

I am somewhat disappointed that Speer would be so vague in their data.

I have shot 4.1 Tite Group in my gun quite successfully. That because I had a rotor for my RCBS 'Li'l Dandy' measure that threw that charge. I was trying to emulate the recommended 3.9 grs.

[w44wcf]

Back when one could still purchase 44 Russian smokeless ammo, the advertised ballistics were 770 f.p.s. with a 246 gr. bullet. Interestingly the .44 Special was listed at the same 770 / 246.

The current Lyman manual (49th edition) shows  
6 1/2" barrel / Starline brass / WLP

245 gr. Keith
Bullseye / 3.6 / 699 f.p.s / 10,500 c.u.p.
Titegroup / 3.6 / 707 f.p.s. / 10,700 c.u.p.
Unique / 4.6 / 736 f.p.s. / 11,100 c.u.p.

427666  200 gr.
Bullseye / 3.8 / 743 / 10,100
Titegroup / 3.8 / 786 / 11,000
Unique / 4.8 / 767 / 10,400
Trail Boss / 3.4 / 695 / 10,700

w44wcf

[Blair]

PJ,

When you want to go to using .44 S&W Russian, I have to ask what is it that you are expecting to get, in your shooting experience with this cartridge?
My best,
Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

More than I'm getting with currently published loads, which I believe are kept artificially low for the sake of 'antique' revolvers.

This saves the reloading data companies the bother of publishing loads for both 'antiques' and modern revolvers with better steel, and covers their butts legally.

[w44wcf]

The .44 Russian is certainly a great revolver cartridge and the #3 was preferred by many target shooters back in the day.

Awhile back I dissected a few rounds of  vintage W.R.A. headstamped .44 Russian factory smokeless ammunition. It was loaded with 4.7 grs. of a small grained disc powder under a 246 gr. hollow base bullet. That ammunition averaged 751 f.p.s. from the 4" barrel on my .44 revolver ...... very close to the published 770 f.p.s. which was recorded in a 6 1/2" barrel.  

Historically speaking,  Thomas Anderton, according to some early Ideal manuals, set a world record at 50 yards with his 205 gr. cast bullet and 3 grs. of bullseye with his #3. Velocity was about 650 f.p.s.  

w44wcf

[Blair]

PJ,

The .44 S&W Russian can be set up as a pretty hot number in the correct hand gun.
Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

I don't want to turn the .44 Russian into a sub-.44 Spl. or 44-40, I just want a little more life than a "Pop!" when I drop the hammer.
For whatever reason, I don't shoot well with squib loads.

I've got both .44 Spl.'s and 44-40's so I got used to their authority compared to the Russian.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Blair & PJ;  There's the rub.  We all know the limits/flexibility of our own revolvers but no one wants to put pixels on the pad in excess of book numbers.

[Mean Bob Mean]

PJ,

When you want to go to using .44 S&W Russian, I have to ask what is it that you are expecting to get, in your shooting experience with this cartridge?
My best,
Blair

It has a reputation for accuracy, but I have no personal experience with it. 

[PJ Hardtack]

I was at the range again today with my Uberti .44 Russian. Had several rds that gave erratic ignition. Load was 5 grs Unique with a 200 gr RNFP.

I'm thinking that the problem might be my brass. While waiting on the arrival of my Star-Line .44 Russian brass, I've been using brass cut down from .44 Spl. There is a slight difference in the rim thickness and I'm wondering if that is causing a head spacing problem.

The case wall thickness is also different than factory .44 Russian brass.

My Star-Line brass will be arriving this week and I'm really anxious to load some up.